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Old 06-19-2012, 08:17 AM   #1
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general guidelines in certain situation?

I play LH on stars and up to 0.5/1$ am winning and loosing at higher stakes.

there 2 guys there against whom, i couldn't figure out what to do. It is also obvious, that I am on their buddy list. They always try to sit on the left from me.

They play tighter range than me and always reraise me pre-flop and then bet the flop and the turn, when I check to them. The difficulty is that I absolutely cant figure out if they have hit sth or not. Correspondingly I never know what to do.....

Ideas? Tighten-up,when they are on the left? Reraising the flop does not work, because then I have almost always capped flop and still dont know if I am good or not. Call the flop only with nuts? Call the flop anyway and the turn only with nuts?

Sry when it all sounds confused. I am new here and I learn.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:57 AM   #2
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Despite the micro forum having been hurt by BF, I think your post will be better served there.

My short observation is that your opponents "know" they can frequently run you off your hand and that you likely need to start calling them down pretty lightly when you're oop.

Pro tip: Don't cap pre flop when you're oop and hu.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:17 AM   #3
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

If I understand correctly you should be calling down a little more than 1/2 the time (with the top of your range: A-high, pocket pairs, maybe K-high).

Game theory (see Theory of Poker) says they should be bluffing B/P of the time where P is the potsize in bets and you should be calling down (P-B)/P of the time. If they are barreling flop, turn, river then the bet size is 2.5 BB and the pot size is 6.5 BB.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:41 AM   #4
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Thanks a lot for answers. I will do this and will post how it worked out. Please feel free to move this thread, where you think it is appropriate. I am not sure if I can move it to the micros myself.

P.S. This guys are playing 1/2 to 3/6 and are part of the reasons, why I don't do very well there. Am really curious if I can finally figure out how to do them.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:46 AM   #5
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapka View Post
I am not sure if I can move it to the micros myself.
Do yer thang Doug.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:49 AM   #6
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

If they have a tighter range than you then you want them on your left - however - their opening ranges might be tighter but their 3bing ranges might not in which case you want them on your right.

LHE50c? I am not sure it is intentional? Change seats if it bugs you so much. I don't mind such a player on my right because I have a pretty good opening range to start and if they 3b me more than once I'm gonna give them a hard time post which might include calling them down light. K high and mid PP wins often enough

I agree - hit up the micros if you're on ol player. GL
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #7
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Hi guys.

I am totally amused. Just finished a session. And first try with your suggestion worked very well.

One example: I was SB one of the guys BB. Game 6 handed on stars 1/2$. I had A3 unsuited and it was folded to me.
Pre flop: I raise; he reraise; I call
flop: 72Q rainbow
I have A high; dude bets; I call
Turn and river I dont remember exactly what it was, but I still had A high and action was: he bets, I call.
Showdown: he has K high

I am totally surprised and think that it is VERY funny/hillarious how well it worked.
*very amused*

Thanks a lot.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:06 AM   #8
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

play tighter.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:08 AM   #9
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Opening A3o from SB is not loose.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:43 AM   #10
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

I tend to find myself in these situations as well. One of my session review partners has noticed that I play way too tight for 6M. I've been trying to open up a bit.

The other day, I had this laggy guy sit down to my left. It seemed that every pot I opened, he would 3! me. When this started to happen, what I did is tighten up my range a bit because I wanted hands that have good SD value. Speculative hands don't have as much value anymore against someone like this. I then tried to SD as much as possible against this guy. I noticed he was 3!'ing me a bit light PF, so I started 4!'ing for value a bit more. He started to back off once he noticed I wasn't going to get run over by him.

There are many players I've noticed that mash the bet button like there's no tomorrow. It works at times, and others it doesn't. The reason it works is that many people take the micro's seriously. They don't want to just stack themselves against some one who's pressuring them constantly because not all of us can throw sometimes hundreds of dollars onto a poker site to just let it get stacked away by some maniacal player. So they fold. Easy money for the aggressor. The key is to get HU against him w/hands that have good SD value. Then get some reads and get him to value town himself. Easier said than done, of course. I still struggle mightily with this concept.

GL & welcome!

BTW, read this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/35...osters-671470/

EXCELLENT post by someone highly respected.

Last edited by roadster99; 06-20-2012 at 01:57 AM. Reason: Content!
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:30 AM   #11
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Obviously good players will give you nightmares to your left, it's the nature of the game. There's no easy fix, try to concentrate on the fish on your right for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapka View Post
They play tighter range than me and always reraise me pre-flop
This sentence is weird. You mean that the few times (since they play tighter than you) they actually enter the pot, they enter for a raise? Or do you mean that you feel like you're constantly getting re-raised preflop?
If it's the first, well duh, if they have a tighter range, they are doing it for value. But the times you have the fish to yourself will amply make up for it.
If it's the latter, then they don't have a tighter range than you.

I play higher than you, but I just tweeted this out yesterday:
"seriously, the levels of aggression are so high at stars, I feel like I win by just nitting it up and being a calling station"
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:44 AM   #12
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatrix View Post
I play higher than you, but I just tweeted this out yesterday:
"seriously, the levels of aggression are so high at stars, I feel like I win by just nitting it up and being a calling station"
I bought leakbuster a little while back. Started upping my aggression as calculated by leakbuster (primarily by calling less) post flop, and hit a 50k hand downswing. When I went back to a slightly more passive approach my winrate is back to 2.7BB/100 as it was before trying to improve my game with leakbuster (over the last 50k or so hands).

I wanted to improve my game before I look to move up stakes hence looking to improve my game. I am in the fortunate position to have (limited) independent financial means, but a small bankroll which I need to grow rather than deposit.

Am a bit lost with that experience. Don't want to derail but would value any input anybody might have on stars' 6 max lhe games around $.50 $1 relative to leakbusters stats.

OP - obvious response but post specific hands.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:49 AM   #13
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

I would caution against any program that gives you formulaic ways to play, just because those tend to be fairly exploitable....
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:42 PM   #14
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick View Post
I would caution against any program that gives you formulaic ways to play, just because those tend to be fairly exploitable....
Leak Buster doesn't give you formulaic ways to play. It uses stats AND hands that you've played to find areas where you're making mistakes. And it works pretty amazingly well.

It was written by knowledgeable poker players that crushed the games they played (like myself), so the entire team is very cognizant of what the needs are of the online poker community. We wouldn't write something that says, if this stat is this, then you must do X.

I'm not by any means saying something like Leak Buster is perfect or just running it is going to make you better. Like anything, you need to be willing to put work in, but I can tell you that it does a great job of finding stuff even coaches will miss (and of course coaches will find things LB misses for more money).
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #15
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Re: general guidelines in certain situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker Account 2 View Post
I bought leakbuster a little while back. Started upping my aggression as calculated by leakbuster (primarily by calling less) post flop, and hit a 50k hand downswing. When I went back to a slightly more passive approach my winrate is back to 2.7BB/100 as it was before trying to improve my game with leakbuster (over the last 50k or so hands).

I wanted to improve my game before I look to move up stakes hence looking to improve my game. I am in the fortunate position to have (limited) independent financial means, but a small bankroll which I need to grow rather than deposit.

Am a bit lost with that experience. Don't want to derail but would value any input anybody might have on stars' 6 max lhe games around $.50 $1 relative to leakbusters stats.

OP - obvious response but post specific hands.
Watch all the content related to the statistical leaks, but focus a lot on the filter leaks in step 7. Because it's not formulaic, you're going to have suggestions and how to adjust in the written and video advice. The adjustments that feel most foreign to you, spend some time trying to think about them and adapt them into your game.

All the Leak Buster limit advice and video content was done by Bryce Paradis. One of the best limit holdem players in the world. He has some good things to say if you spend some time with it.
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