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Old 05-28-2012, 11:17 AM   #1
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Defend BB with TT call

So I'm trying to switch to the "never 3-bet from the BB HU" preflop strategy.

Don't know Villain well at this point but he's been quite laggy so far.

1/2 6-max.

Hero is BB with TT

Preflop: BTN open-raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop (4.5 SB): K 6 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero?

These sorta spots make me uncomfortable with the never 3-bet strategy. I'm a clear favourite against his preflop range. However, a lot of those hands I beat are going to fold if I c-r on a flop this dry. There are also zero draws in my range to balance the c-r. I'm not sure how to proceed - c-r now; c-c/c-r; c-c/donk? And if I get 3-bet, is folding an option?

Last edited by Rooksx; 05-28-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:25 AM   #2
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

c/r ure ahead easy , u have at least 60% equity unless is very tight.
reads is spazzy go ahead dont look back and call down if raise unless Q and A hit (any 2 over card), u need lot bad card to hit not only 1 imo.( except vs tag)
no free card is important here, no c/c
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:28 PM   #3
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

Hi there

If you're going to adopt a never 3 bet from the BB HU, in this situation with your 10's you have to check raise a premium hand like this on the flop as you've already lost out on a small bet by not raising preflop.

FWIW I'm not a fan of the never 3 bet from the BB HU especially in the micros. Each to his own by I would advocate raising a vast amount HU in the BB with good holdings especially against stealer.

You posting this hand has given you a dilemma due to the fact you didn't raise in the BB to begin with. If you had raised then you bet the flop and put your opponent to the test. Being too passive in the BB with premium holdings can lead you into difficult decisions and sometimes it's easier just to take the initiative, it's much easier to play when your bossing it.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #4
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooksx View Post
These sorta spots make me uncomfortable with the never 3-bet strategy. I'm a clear favourite against his preflop range. However, a lot of those hands I beat are going to fold if I c-r on a flop this dry.
Well, it kinda depends, doesn't it? If villain does fold out Ahighs and stuff, i.e. he doesn't realize how his SD-value changes based on the dryness of the flop, then balancing preflop doesn't really make much sense, does it?
If he is to recognize the changing of value hands based on this flop, you c/r for value purely and get called down by Ahighs, low pp etc., depending on what the turn and other hands bring you.


Quote:
There are also zero draws in my range to balance the c-r. I'm not sure how to proceed - c-r now; c-c/c-r; c-c/donk?
I think our hand is not strong enough to go with waiting to the turn. Better get that half bet in now, as most of the hands that you beat will fold to a c/r on the turn, while a lot of them stick around on the flop.

c/c - donk, it's and interesting line, but not on dry flops, more when an unexpected draw seems to hit (some straight possibilities open up).

Quote:
And if I get 3-bet, is folding an option?
Ugh, with no reads on the villain, no... (not yet, at least)... But I definitely don't like the situation we're in. Having said that, there are spazzes that recognize the dryness, but go crazy with AQ. At the moment, can't fold yet, but I would be wary, especially if an Ace turns or rivers.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:15 PM   #5
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

I see good value/protection against overcards and A3+ with a backdoor flush draw and A7+ on the flop so I check raise and showdown if 3 bet. Since you didn't 3 bet there are 6x, 2x, and Ax with a backdoor flush draw in your range that you can use as bluffcatchers with a check call line. I lead any turn if just called on the flop. I'm folding if raised on an A, probably calling down anything else without a better read that he doesn't bluff raise the turn. If he just calls to the river then I'm very confident and I'm most likely betting again for value.

But I usually have a spewy image so I expect to get paid more. If you don't then check call might be better.

If he can bet fold the flop then I like to add stuff like JTs, 87s both with a backdoor flush draw to my flop check raise range at a discount(because I like to have it in my flop peeling range also, and doing it everytime would be too much imo).

This hand really got me thinking about protection on dry boards. You should get a lot of folds on the flop and turn, but the pot is smaller so there's less to protect. I think that if you add up money won from winning on the flop and turn with value bets won/lost and bluffs profitably caught then subtract money lost when you bet fold the turn or river you'll come up with a positive number.

All that said I 3 bet preflop against 25%+ ranges unless the guy loves to 3 barrel.

tl;dr check raise the flop and lead the turn.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #6
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

*g*

I would 3! bet pf and bet the flop. Then if he gives you any heat, you can be a lot more confident that he has you beat.

As played, I think I c/r the flop : similar reasoning as above.

Last edited by EaseThisJam; 05-28-2012 at 02:03 PM. Reason: originally had 3! instead of c/r
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:37 PM   #7
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooksx View Post
So I'm trying to switch to the "never 3-bet from the BB HU" preflop strategy.
just 3 bet wider imho
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #8
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Re: Defend BB with TT call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooksx View Post
These sorta spots make me uncomfortable with the never 3-bet strategy. I'm a clear favourite against his preflop range. However, a lot of those hands I beat are going to fold if I c-r on a flop this dry.
Rooksx, you've pointed out the missing piece in Montrealcorp's advice. To be profitable, you need him to call worse. Put the villain on a range PF, then remove all the snap folds. With the remaining hands, how do you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
c/r ure ahead easy , u have at least 60% equity unless is very tight.
We're ahead the minute the villain cbets. The issue is that this is a great flop to bluff. Because it is so good to bluff, it is harder to value raise. If the villain can read the texture and know you're bluffing, then he could get suspicious with A highs and maybe even a good Q high. Still, we cost ourselves all of the villains barrels by blasting him off the flop. In a 6m game, there is value in letting the villain barrel off. Do we have so much value we miss out on value ranges? How likely is he to blast off all 3 barrels? We need to consider this stuff before we just look at equity vs. PF range and fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDownSwingV View Post
just 3 bet wider imho
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the "never 3 bet HU OOP" strategy has more going for it than to be dismissed with quick statements like this. Three betting wide favors the in position player, he likes playing big pots IP. You're partitioning your range, so unless you're really 3 betting a ton, you're giving him info that he can use. You could say three bet with some balance, but just doing it wide doesn't help. If you do it wide enough, there are flops you can't hit TP after having not three bet.

It is fine to say that your opponents are idiots and can't hand read. Sadly, as the games get tougher, more and more people you face can read hands. Even if your eventual destination isn't no 3 betting, everyone should try it -- you learn a lot in these tough spots. How do I play a mid-strong hand OOP w/o initiative vs. a wide range? Skilled players know how to do this. Learn the spot, what to consider, etc. There are times when you want to leave your opponent wide to maximize profit and there are times you don't, get your feet wet.

---

BTW, just read and re-read Bellatrix's post. There's a lot going on in there. She's one of the best SH players who posts in these parts.
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