Any Higher and I'd Be As Baked As Tyler (NC Thread)

[dragon1893]

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...26/?cmpid=rss1

lol,

let's develop some spoiled kids, that's what the economy needs!

[A_Schupick]

Originally Posted by dragon1893

lol,

let's develop some spoiled kids, that's what the economy needs!

develop? We already have them. See our current generation. (If i remember right you are about the same age as me, and I am sure you have seen some of the same spoiled behavior i have.)

[PokerStars Nick]

We are currently evaluating a couple of potential changes to our Fixed Limit games at PokerStars. If you would like to give your feedback on these changes, please do so here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/53...games-1209621/

Thanks

[McNeese72]

Originally Posted by roadster99

Lol, yeah. You wouldn't happen to be speaking from experience?

Me, I'd never do anything like that.........oh, wait!!.

Doc

[Xylocain]

Originally Posted by PokerStars Nick

We are currently evaluating a couple of potential changes to our Fixed Limit games at PokerStars. If you would like to give your feedback on these changes, please do so here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/53...games-1209621/

Thanks

so after the game died you figured it was shortstacking that killed it?

[Trex8063]

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...26/?cmpid=rss1

I thought this was just local news here in Alberta's capital. Somewhat surprised it's come to national/international attention.

[Aaron W.]

Originally Posted by Trex8063

I thought this was just local news here in Alberta's capital. Somewhat surprised it's come to national/international attention.

It's slowly making its way through the education circles. (I got tipped off through a friend's Facebook post.) I don't think the major US news outlets have picked up on it, so it's not as if it has gone viral.

I think the media is too caught up with the "You're not special" graduation speech right now, and the zeros controversy will slip through mostly unnoticed.

http://bostonherald.com/news/regiona...re_not_special

Then see...

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...pecial-speech/

CNN Education Blog: http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.co...e-not-special/

Some Austrailian News: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226390166822

[roadster99]

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

It's slowly making its way through the education circles. (I got tipped off through a friend's Facebook post.) I don't think the major US news outlets have picked up on it, so it's not as if it has gone viral.

I think the media is too caught up with the "You're not special" graduation speech right now, and the zeros controversy will slip through mostly unnoticed.

I saw that "You're not special" speech on the blaze a few days back. Amazing. All this during a period of time where student loan debt is at record numbers, post high school education costs are at an all time high and jobs are few and far between. You would think that supporting our youth and equipping them with the tools to succeed, prosper and grow our nation into something better than what it is today, would be the goals of everyone. I had no idea that mediocrity was accepted and praised. What type of legacy are we leaving on the shoulders of the next generation?

When I was going to school, it was generally accepted to receive a "0" if work wasn't turned in. How are you able to give a grade towards work if there is no work to grade? What other option do you have other than to give a "0?"

On a side note, taken from the WSOP website:

2:00 PM
EVENT #20, the $5,000 buy-in LIMIT HOLD’EM tournament continues with Day Three – including the final table. There are 17 players remaining. Matthew Woodward is currently the chip leader. Terrence Chan, who has already cashed in five events this summer, is looking to make his first final table appearance of the year. Action takes place inside Amazon and will be livestreaming with commentary on WSOP.com.

Might be cool to watch some final table Limit action!

[DougL]

Amazing. All this during a period of time where student loan debt is at record numbers, post high school education costs are at an all time high and jobs are few and far between.

People are buying without considering the cost/benefit of it. In a world where the standard answer is "everyone go to college, get the best education you can manage" and that's backed with tons of easy-to-get loans, why should a seller provide a low price? The failing is with both parents and schools unable to teach their children that an investment has a cost to provide a benefit. People generally suck at money and analysis like this.

As for the no zeros thing, I doubt we have an accurate whole story. What grade do you give on homework not turned in? Seems unlikely that it is B-. Given the quality of reporting these days, I bet there are issues with the story.

[roadster99]

Originally Posted by DougL

People are buying without considering the cost/benefit of it. In a world where the standard answer is "everyone go to college, get the best education you can manage" and that's backed with tons of easy-to-get loans, why should a seller provide a low price? The failing is with both parents and schools unable to teach their children that an investment has a cost to provide a benefit. People generally suck at money and analysis like this.

Great point. But you could argue that part of the problem is the "easy-to-get-loans" part. An example you could use is the mortgage crisis. Is it right for a lender to lend to an unqualified recipient? Of course it's always up to the one applying for the loan to understand the risk/reward of lending/borrowing. And yes, one of the biggest problems with people nowadays is biting off more than they can chew. But robo-signing approvals to benefit from commissions isn't any better. I think both sides can benefit from a bit more "regulation."

With student loans, though, sellers DO provide a low price. They offer very low interest rates (which are usually at a fixed rate) on loans that don't need to be paid until a student's education is completed. The terms of these loans are pretty long, too. Don't they average about 10yrs? That's not a bad deal. I think what it comes down to is the amount that they need to borrow.

USC, for example, charges 60K/yr to attend. By the end of your 4 yr career at USC, you're in the hole 240k. That's a huge debt to have to repay, even if you have 10yrs to do it. Is USC worth 240k? I don't know. I'm a community college product. I would never know because I would never be able to afford that type of schooling. Nor would my parents have been able to fund it. Is it 100% guaranteed that you'll come out of USC and jump into a 6 figure job? No. Is it 100% guaranteed that you'll be paying out of your @$$ for that education? Yes.

I think education is a bit overpriced. But in the end, it's just my personal opinion about post high school education. I just feel that these institutions could get away with making a great education a bit more attainable for middle income earning families without shifting the debt burden onto the student and/or family.

Originally Posted by DougL

As for the no zeros thing, I doubt we have an accurate whole story. What grade do you give on homework not turned in? Seems unlikely that it is B-. Given the quality of reporting these days, I bet there are issues with the story.

I'm not trying to coarse, but I'm curious:

Let's pretend you're a teacher and you assign a book report on Sklansky's SSHE. The report must be a minimum of 5 pages, single spaced with a font size no larger than 12. You give us 3 months to complete the report. At the end of 3 months, you inform us that our reports are due. I turn absolutely nothing in. What type of grade are you supposed to give me for this report?

[Aaron W.]

Originally Posted by roadster99

You would think that supporting our youth and equipping them with the tools to succeed, prosper and grow our nation into something better than what it is today, would be the goals of everyone. I had no idea that mediocrity was accepted and praised. What type of legacy are we leaving on the shoulders of the next generation?

Supporting our youth and lying to them in order to keep them from feeling bad are two different hings. It's important to maintain high standards, but also be realistic about progress towards goals. Being at the top of your high school class means close to nothing. You have a 4.0 high school GPA? That's good, but it's very big-fish/small-pond.

So I don't think that mediocrity is being accepted and praised, but rather it's about deflating the egos of students who feel entitled and think they're the most incredible people ever. (There are students who tell their college composition professors that their high school teachers told them they were good writers, when in reality they struggle with basic grammar. I have students who got As in high school math, but they have issues with basic arithmetic. It's really quite scary.)

When I was going to school, it was generally accepted to receive a "0" if work wasn't turned in. How are you able to give a grade towards work if there is no work to grade? What other option do you have other than to give a "0?"

Originally Posted by DougL

As for the no zeros thing, I doubt we have an accurate whole story. What grade do you give on homework not turned in? Seems unlikely that it is B-. Given the quality of reporting these days, I bet there are issues with the story.

I've skimmed through google news (searched "Lynden Dorval") and as far as I can tell, nobody is saying that it's an inaccurate portrayal of the policy.

[Aaron W.]

Originally Posted by DougL

People generally suck at money and analysis like this.

High school students have dreams, and they're often not mature enough to understand reality. This is especially true of the slightly affluent (upper-middle class) where parents have not spent much time teaching their children about money (because there has always been "enough", so it's never been an issue that needed to be discussed). Many of those students didn't work much in high school (well, maybe in the summers where they earned money to play with, but their parents still paid their auto insurance, phone, and other expenses). Is it any wonder why they suck at money?

[roadster99]

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Supporting our youth and lying to them in order to keep them from feeling bad are two different hings. It's important to maintain high standards, but also be realistic about progress towards goals. Being at the top of your high school class means close to nothing. You have a 4.0 high school GPA? That's good, but it's very big-fish/small-pond.

So I don't think that mediocrity is being accepted and praised, but rather it's about deflating the egos of students who feel entitled and think they're the most incredible people ever. (There are students who tell their college composition professors that their high school teachers told them they were good writers, when in reality they struggle with basic grammar. I have students who got As in high school math, but they have issues with basic arithmetic. It's really quite scary.)

100% spot on. But can't you argue that

"students who tell their college composition professors that their high school teachers told them they were good writers, when in reality they struggle with basic grammar. I have students who got As in high school math, but they have issues with basic arithmetic"

IS mediocrity being accepted and praised? These high school instructors are ACCEPTING their students' mediocrity and PRAISING them by giving them grades they don't deserve, much less have earned. They then leave high school thinking they're a straight A student when in reality, they should be a straight C student. Who knows how far this mentality goes, but if post high school institutions continue this mentality, my goodness. Where does it end?

My point more specifically being, be honest with the grades you give your students. Don't give them and A because it's PC. Give them an A because they deserve it. More importantly, earned it.

[DougL]

Originally Posted by roadster99

Great point. But you could argue that part of the problem is the "easy-to-get-loans" part.

Remember, these loans cannot be discharged by bankruptcy. It makes it easier for the bank to offer loans to bad risks.

What type of grade are you supposed to give me for this report?

A zero.

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

I've skimmed through google news (searched "Lynden Dorval") and as far as I can tell, nobody is saying that it's an inaccurate portrayal of the policy.

I have no idea how you grade work that wasn't done. People are funny, though.

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

High school students have dreams, and they're often not mature enough to understand reality.

Yeah, agree. You also don't hear a lot of backlash against spending "too much" on education. Kids don't think that getting $100k-$200k in debt to get a $25k-$40k/year job is a horrible idea if you ever want to be out of debt. They think of the "opportunity to grow as a person". Ultimately, the parents or the lender have to step in. However, all the laws we have setting up the guaranteed loans take financial responsibility out of the picture. In the end, tons of agents (universities, bankers, etc.) tell them to go get that great education. Is there any wonder that solid financial planning is missing? The incentives are all in the other direction. If we the people are shocked by the defaults, we also need to accept that we have a lot of responsibility for setting them up.

Originally Posted by roadster99

Give them an A because they deserve it. More importantly, earned it.

I'm more interested in how many tools a person gets along the way. Is the person competent in the end? Like Aaron's issue with kids who had A's but are incompetent in math, the grade isn't a goal. As a parent, isn't your biggest hope that you raise a child to be a competent adult with the tools required to have a reasonable life and be happy? The more people who come out of your local high school that have good tools, the better. Debating what A, B, or C means seems narrow. Did the school equip them for later? Otherwise, they should have started a trade instead of wasting the time.

[roadster99]

Originally Posted by DougL

I'm more interested in how many tools a person gets along the way. Is the person competent in the end? Like Aaron's issue with kids who had A's but are incompetent in math, the grade isn't a goal. As a parent, isn't your biggest hope that you raise a child to be a competent adult with the tools required to have a reasonable life and be happy? The more people who come out of your local high school that have good tools, the better. Debating what A, B, or C means seems narrow. Did the school equip them for later? Otherwise, they should have started a trade instead of wasting the time.

100% agree. But in terms of being able to quantify your success in required courses, for example Algebra I/II or Biology I/II, etc., a grade needs to be given. So the goal would be, yes, try to attain an A. Do your best work, study hard. Whether or not you're using these concepts in day to day life is another debate. I used to question that every day of high school. I think almost every student does at one point or another.

When you have no choice as to what core courses you're required to pass in order to get your high school and/or college diploma, I would feel much better about myself and my future if the grades I received on my report card reflected my genuine ability in those courses.

But again, I'm a public high school/community college product. I gave the finger to mainstream education and went the way of the trade.