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Old 06-09-2012, 12:00 AM   #1
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AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Villian: vpip:39, PFR:10, steal:16, hands: 73

Should I have actually folded my AA at the flop when villian shoves?

Ongame Network $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $9.85
error209 (BB): $4.70
cherkimi (UTG): $3.09
mocan_tudor (CO): $3.48
Chent Duvidi (BTN): $4.20

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is SB with A A
cherkimi calls $0.04, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, cherkimi calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.44) K 6 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.34, cherkimi raises to $2.89 all in, Hero calls $2.55

Turn: ($6.22) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($6.22) T (2 players - 1 is all in)
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:02 AM   #2
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Another question is if I have 10 10 preflop, against aggro donk with AKs. I raise to 4BB, aggro donk shoves his AKo, should I have folded ? Because AK is able to catch up?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:05 AM   #3
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wands View Post
Villian: vpip:39, PFR:10, steal:16, hands: 73

Should I have actually folded my AA at the flop when villian shoves?
TP w/BDFD? Nah. Calling his shove is ok. I would have. But what do I know, since I don't play No Limit & this is a Limit forum.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:08 AM   #4
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

oops, sorry posted in the wrong forum. Can someone shift this thread to no-limit forum?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:10 AM   #5
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wands View Post
Another question is if I have 10 10 preflop, against aggro donk with AKs. I raise to 4BB, aggro donk shoves his AKo, should I have folded ? Because AK is able to catch up?
How do you know if Villain has AKs exactly?

Take a look at this:

Simulated 1712304 Holdem Hands (Enumerated All)
Simulation by Slice - The ev++ Equity Calculator :: http://sliceeq.com/

Player Equity Win Hi Tie Hi Range

1 53.9 53.7 0.4 10s10c
2 46.1 45.9 0.4 AhKh

1010 is a favorite against AKs Preflop. So it's a race.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:16 AM   #6
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadster99 View Post
How do you know if Villain has AKs exactly?

Take a look at this:

Simulated 1712304 Holdem Hands (Enumerated All)
Simulation by Slice - The ev++ Equity Calculator :: http://sliceeq.com/

Player Equity Win Hi Tie Hi Range

1 53.9 53.7 0.4 10s10c
2 46.1 45.9 0.4 AhKh

1010 is a favorite against AKs Preflop. So it's a race.
Because I called his all in, and he got AKo.

But then the flop came, Ace dropped. He hit it. Sometimes thinking about it, would it be better to fold preflop against villian's Ax ?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:21 AM   #7
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

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Originally Posted by wands View Post
Because I called his all in, and he got AKo.

But then the flop came, Ace dropped. He hit it. Sometimes thinking about it, would it be better to fold preflop against villian's Ax ?
Well LDO...

But the question is whether or not to call BEFORE you flip & can see his cards. You're looking back on the hand and are upset you lost because Villain drew out on you. But preflop, before the all-in is called, you have a slight edge over AK. That's the point. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. You can't be 100% certain that you know the EXACT 2 holecards villain is shoving with. So you make your best estimation on a range of hands he could be shoving with and make your decision. If you're 90% positive he has a hand like AKs, it's a good decision in the long run. The only way you'll know exactly what he has is if you call and you both turn your cards over. Otherwise, you're focusing on the wrong thing.

Think of it this way. According to the Stove numbers, you'll win 53.9% of the time & villain will win 46.1% of the time resulting in a +EV decision in the long run.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:28 AM   #8
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadster99 View Post
Well LDO...

But the question is whether or not to call BEFORE you flip & can see his cards. You're looking back on the hand and are upset you lost because Villain drew out on you. But preflop, before the all-in is called, you have a slight edge over AK. That's the point. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. You can't be 100% certain that you know the EXACT 2 holecards villain is shoving with. So you make your best estimation on a range of hands he could be shoving with and make your decision. If you're 90% positive he has a hand like AKs, it's a good decision in the long run. The only way you'll know exactly what he has is if you call and you both turn your cards over. Otherwise, you're focusing on the wrong thing.

Think of it this way. According to the Stove numbers, you'll win 53.9% of the time & villain will win 46.1% of the time resulting in a +EV decision in the long run.
ok, understood. Anyone else with other opinions?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:42 AM   #9
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Re: AA vs all in, at the flop, fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wands View Post
Because I called his all in, and he got AKo.

But then the flop came, Ace dropped. He hit it. Sometimes thinking about it, would it be better to fold preflop against villian's Ax ?
Sorry, are you drunk? You want to fold AA vs Ax pf


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Last edited by nyrugby; 06-09-2012 at 12:43 AM. Reason: another opinion
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