Lol... great advice, thanks XD i am learning.
I think c/r here is not that bad... but yeah fold to 3bet should be not bad. Maybe with limited experience it is best XD

Hmm... can't imagine me taking so passive here, but probably should XD
If we just c/c c/c c/ hmm... here pot should be 7.7BB without information so if he have worst in one of 7 times it will be call, isn't he be that in long run? But if do it make same as c/r/c c/c c/f (not read on barreling)

For now i think best thing can be c/r/f on flop.

That is a horrible line w/o a strong read of some very specific things.

Mostly in LHE, don't take lines where you narrow the villain's range so that you know you're beat and then fold. You're turning 99 into a bluff in some ways.

so that you know you're beat and then fold...

O.o why it do not save bets? little confused here.

For example i bet A7 on AT2 and if i get reised i fold to get out as fast as possible. Why this different?

This isn't NL. We're not looking for ways to fold top pair. Every raise should converge the villain's range. Each successive raise gets less and less value when we don't have the nuts. Thus, we don't want to take a guy through so many raises that we no longer even have enough value to call ourselves.

I'd recommend Small Stakes Hold'em as a good book to read.

i don't think i have ever taken that line in my life. I was only trying to point out that any aggression from this villain has us in horrible shape.

Edit: I don't really find myself in the spot you were referring to. I don't really love any lines here though. I guess c/c, c/c, c/f is best.

You need a read that he won't three barrel AK-AJ or KQs to c/f the river. You're inducing that river bet. You can only fold if he can't be induced.

With strong reads, you have a lot of choices. I just worry that you guys take the most aggressive lines b/c you are a little lost w/o initiative.

Hmm... flop and turn now start make sense.
But i think it should be c/c c/c c/c from me.

Explanation about why in 9.7BB pot after bet i can or can't call should be great... if he don't have best hand in one of 9 times i get profits O.o probability is it that bad that he have theses hands???

+just wondering that we are talking about 3bet range of 0 after 73 hands and his range? from where come AJ and KQs?

Well we do have a bit of a read, and I am basing my stoves on that read. At game speed I agree that I would likely call the river bet if I had c/c, c/c, c/? just because we don't have a ton of hands on him......but if we can trust the numbers by which we are building our ranges then it would imply that we cannot profitably call a third barrel from this villain.

As played, we cannot call the river ui.

I think you're making a decent mistake due to lack of sample size. I don't have much experience at this stake, but be aware that once a player 3 bets he may commit to the hand. I want notes that he checks back overcards. Your statement isn't backed by the evidence we have. Again, one reason to take a passive line is to induce exactly this action. It is strange that you strongly believe that we have to c/r for value on the flop and that we should clearly fold the river. Don't these views seem inconsistent?

Not really. When I c/r and get 3!'d I have more information by which to narrow his range. Note I am not "raising for information", but I am certainly receiving information as a byproduct of my raise. With that said, once I ran the stove I realized we did not have the equity to c/r the flop which is why I have been talking to you about the passive call-down approach.

I will cede that I have a hard time distinguishing where the line is on taking the two approaches we have been discussing. It's a combination of ranges and villain type that will tip it and I don't always get it right.

I'm enjoying the dialogue.



Probably. Although I think guys with these stats don't float that much in terms of their stats over the long haul.

math fail.....double checked my stove and it looks like we have enough equity to c/call down from flop getting about 5:17....IF villain barrels his whole range. (This is assuming we took a c/c, c/c, c/? line.

But the raise on the Flop. Can you consider it a value raise? VS. this particular villain and the tight range he's playing, let alone 3!'ing, the PF & Flop action, can we comfortably say we're ahead?

For me, when I replay this hand in my head, I'm x/c'ing all the way down. Whether the River call is bad, I don't know. All I know is that the 4 is pretty much a blank, so it doesn't change my mind about calling the River. I'd cringe and expect to see a paired Q at the very least, or QQ+.

I agree with dougL in that you will at least need a read to know if he'll check the Rvr UI. I've been witness to many A-high 3-barrel bluffs. IMO, 99 is a perfect bluff catcher type of hand, and taking the x/call line plays to his weakness if in fact he will blindly 3-barrel AK.

As am I. Great thread.

Yeah, book nothing said about reising to get out (for information) but betting to get out... that right. Thanks to pointing it.
Call down in this situation can be great with limited information about opponent.
But i probably find my self calling river quick because pot is that big at that point, but all come with experience.

Thanks all.

I originally thought it was for value, but when I sat down and ran a stove realized it was not even close.