That's absurd. I could give you $10 billion right now and you could put it wherever you want, but you're not going to achieve zero risk. Between massive inflation, risk of government collapse, and just random acts of god/theft, etc., nothing can absolutely guarantee that you'll never have to work again.

Assuming that "set for life" means I could retire the next day and feel confident I could live the remainder of my life comfortably, I see nothing crazy about factoring in a historically reasonable rate of investment returns, accepting that there's some risk there. $1 million would be far too risky for me, but it's way closer to my number than $10 million. It all depends on how much you value time relative to possessions. If you don't consider yourself "set" until you're living an opulent lifestyle with effectively zero risk of ruin, then more power to you, but you'll be spending a lot more of your life working than I will.

1.5. Cool, man. We think differently. There hasn't been a storm here in the Boston area that would take out a condo, like, ever.

How do you know I couldn't make 50K? I just don't understand how you know that considering I am certain of an investment that has made more than that over a 17 year period, even with 08-09 happening.

Not to mention with 1.5 and buying a condo/car I wouldn't even need 50 to live.

Because most of you are much younger than I am, you can't really see one of the main losses that must be figured into investment decisions and why my not working is such a huge cost. I have Multilist pages (houses for sale) from the late sixties through seventies, showing mansions that would sell for millions today that are listed at less than one hundred thousand dollars.

Inflation is a huge factor in deciding on an investment strategy. Even if you can live off the interest of your investments and not touch the principle, you must still grow the investment at the same rate as inflation or you will slowly fall behind. $50,000 a year sounds pretty good now, but in twenty years time it may well only purchase what $25,000 (or less) does now. If you live fifty years, it may only have the purchasing power of less than ten thousand dollars. (And these figures could be much worse than I'm stating.)

This is why old people (who are poor, but didn't think they were) are suffering. They saved to retire comfortably on $8,000 a year and the "worth" of that money changed drastically over time. Ten million sounds like a lot, but who knows in fifty years.

I will only consider myself "set for life" if I can have a suit made from poor people's kidneys. So however much that costs.

It really does depend on where you live.
Also, being an intelligent investor by avoiding taxes and undue risk. Untaxed income is huge. People get so used to seeing their income just cut in half by taxes, that they don't realize how rich they are.

500K in stocks throws off 12k in dividends alone. (2.5%) That can cover a $1000 a month mortgage. That's ghetto in nyc, middle class in LV, and top of the line in rural areas.
Throw in another 500K, and you have 1k a month to live on. Again, that's nothing in NYC, food and expenses in LV, and ample in the middle of nowhere.
Consider growth in stocks, and decreased housing costs as one ages, and there you have inflation covered.

So 500k-1M is comfortably doable in the right circumstances. But those circumstances aren't right for many people. If one is a poker player, and gains some small income with their leisure activity, it becomes much easier. If one is an artist who can cover costs by the work produced, and don't mind living out in the country, 500K is doable.

And yes, affordable care act, medicare, etc remove a big risk of ruin.

I mean, 10M invested at a tax free 2.5% gives you 250k to spend every year. That's monthly vacations and trips to Las Vegas, high end season tickets, etc. If that's what you need, then get ready for some disillusionment.

What this thread really exposes is the lack of fiscal knowledge.

10 billion would be fine for handling swings. 10 million I'd probably be fine with too living off forever.

I'm talking about 1M (or his revised figure of 1.5M). In this scenario we absolutely cannot sustain any bad years or risk because we have no safety net and are already living a frugal lifestyle. The guy basically said he would invest more during his good years to offset his bad ones. That statement is....ridiculous.

What's the amount where EVERYONE would agree is set for life? I think that's a good place to start. Like, I'd say anyone would be like "ok, $100M is set for life." You could probably even trim that down to around $40M. But where is that line?

And I don't know because I'm not a rich guy with million dollar investments, but if you put $1M into some sort of moderate-consevative investment portfolio, how much are you getting out of it? Something like a mutual fund I guess. More risk than a GIC or Government Bond, but nothing insanely volatile. Because I have a hard time seeing these averaging more than an extra $50k/year. How far off base is this?

You don't have 1.5. You're buying a condo and a car. ~1.3 assuming you buy a budget vehicle.

You have an extremely tight budget that cannot handle swings. Getting a guaranteed 5% on your original 1.3 is basically impossible.

Like seriously you are not understanding even the basics of monetary flow ie you will need to buy a new car at some point. You will have unexpected expenses at some point. Your returns will decrease. Inflation happens and 20 years down the road you will be lol screwed. You'd be super budget living with a ton of $$ in the bank. This is difficult.

It's not a matter of thinking differently. Your "plan" would have you going busto a decent % of the time. An actual plan would involve busto super close to 0%.

Personally the minimum I'd want is 5 million at a young age. If I'm older than the number can go down slightly, but under Op scenario 5 million.

See, there yah go. Told yah I could do it.

Mullen,
that's what mortgages are for. And asset backed mortgages are pretty cheap. 1.5M in suburbs of Boston with a frugal lifestyle is reasonable.

Goose,
tax free investment funds have gotten near 6% return over the past 20 years. Or 60K per year per million.
But that isn't going to grow, and inflation will eat up your principle. If you take a stock portfolio, you get much smaller income, but the growth should cover the inflation.
Btw, being in Canada with national health care makes the risk much smaller. Not sure what the tax rules are. And a little cottage by the lake can't be too much. Just cut out that coke and grenadine.

I'll humor you slightly with my limited knowledge. There are tax advantaged investments, but not tax avoiding investments. When you use the term dividend in regard to stocks, they are not the norm even in the most profitable companies and limiting your portfolio to those specific stocks would severely compromise your diversification.

Taking the entirety of the proceeds would leave you losing to inflation (as I mentioned above) and planning your expenditures around investment performance that varies year to year would be problematic. There are fixed investment vehicles that pay set rates, but those rates are extremely low right now. By locking in to a set rate today, you would be gambling on rates staying the same or going lower, otherwise you would begin losing value the moment you signed the note.

By only having one million (Yes, I know how much that sounds like.), you would need to place your money at far greater risk than would be prudent for a retired person. Now if you plan on working for the next thirty years, yes, that is a huge amount. (Although I've seen young people blow through much more, lol.)

Hobbes is in pretty good shape for several reasons. One, he is talking retirement at 58, not 28. (I could write a book on the massive differences.) Two, his ability to work if he had to is huge and allows him to invest carefully and still beat the market and inflation over the long term.

I'm not sure what Goodie is talking about, but his general point isn't that far off: some people just reallllly hate working and would be fine living a "normal" lifestyle on $50K/year.

At a previous company of mine, there was a well-known salesman who retired in his early 30s. After a few years of "ramping up" sales in his mid-20s, he had built up his portfolio enough where he was able to consistently make $500K/year. He did this for 3-4 years, then abruptly retired. People who kept in contact with him said he and his wife (no job, no kids) bought a 3/2/2 house in a cheap part of Illinois and saved the rest of the husband's earnings. They live an incredibly frugal lifestyle - so much so that they actually rent their third bedroom out to a stranger - so neither of them ever have to work again.

So...yes, it is possible to retire on $1.5-2 million, you just can't live an extravagant lifestyle. Some people are okay with that, though, so I don't see why that figure is unrealistic.

This is why you are poor. Quit spending money on useless crap. Your investing ROI is a joke as well. You can make almost 5% in a mutual fund, 8% easy in much more aggressive accounts.

Rich people are rich because they are frugal, not because they are rich.

It is unrealistic when he's talking about unrealistic investment gains.

Sure give a guy 50k a year adjust 3% for inflation or whatever and sure he can live off that forever (though most of us want a higher income than a bartender when we're in our mid 30s). That's not the debate.

And obv the 500k/yr guy who retired at 32 is a moron.

Everybody has their own personal definition of "set," but jotting down my list (2 people no kids): $2m up front plus an inflation-adjusted $250k annually. The $2m is about $700k for a house and the rest a conservative investment/rainy day fund. The $250k a year would be enough for upkeep, various insurances, food, utilities, vehicles, major entertainment, events and travel, gifts, and plenty for BS spending on the kinds of things we like. A little left for charity.

That's not Manhattan living, but there are plenty of states with lower property tax where $700k will get you a few acres and a 3,500 sq foot house, and still have you reasonably near a larger city. We're not really into designer kitchens or Italian sports cars, and don't have any dangerous habits.

For someone 20-22 I'd aim higher. At least in my case I didn't have a great idea of what was really important to me back then, and didn't handle money very well. If you handed me a $250k check each January I'd have been tapped by summer.

EDIT: And to compare that to today - I've got $180 worth of stuff in my Amazon cart and I've been trying to decide for two days whether I want to sneak this other thing in or not. It's worth an hours' pay and I can easily afford it, well within my entertainment budget, but the more I save the harder it's been to spend. At 20, lol that **** would be in my house by now, and I'd have like $22 in my checking account.

mullen, I'm pretty sure 1.5 million would buy an annuity paying greater than 50K/year for life with effectively no risk.

wow

id rather be on the edge of homeless forever eating kraft dinner all life than working a 9-5 job

If i had to do this to not be homeless id do it but i would prob end up killing myself after 10-12 months

I've never worked a 9-5 so can someone explain this? Has this man lost it? Why would anyone want to work 8 hours a day?


What is it that you do if you don't mind me asking? Or is it more about staying busy, interacting with people etc...

I might have to get one of these real jobs just to see what all the fuss is about.

yeah hes broken theres no other explanations

Set for life means don't have to work to me, poll needs way bigger dollar ranges

yeah, you dont need a 9 to 5 to keep from being bored

Here goes a classy 200th post, never thought I would have made it this far.

Where you purchase the cocaine will have a great impact on the amount you get. Bricks at their cheapest go for around 2k a piece close to coca plant processors in Columbia(raw plant cost is roughly 600-700$ per kg, and rapidly increases as the product is shipped, 8-10k in the islands and 10-12k in Mexico(cheaper in S mex, pricier on the N border) and more than double that when it crosses into the US.

Obviously purity decreases along this shipment chain, although street level purity is constantly increasing, one of the biggest indicators that the drug war is a failure. The other indicator being that the price of raw dog powder has decreased tremendously over the past 3 decades.

If you have to get it in the Midwest, Chicago's Little Village neighborhood is by far your best choice, and the border crossing cities (Miami and LA) are your best bets on the coasts, although Freeway Rick Ross and Griselda Blanco are no longer slinging legendary amounts of yayo, it is less centralized, but more abundant in the US than ever before.

Just wanted to share this info as it might have an impact on how much you need to budget for your yayo. And of course you probably already know not to pay European prices($50k kgs), they are only second to Australia($100k+) in blow prices.

He wants to work 9-5, 40 hours/week, because he has been socially conditioned to do so, and it's how he can justify in his mind that he has value or worth to society.

I really don't get it either. You can just do a hobby that you love for 8 hours a day (if not more, since you like it) and become masterful at it. Or you can sit in an office for 8 hours a day, having to uphold yourself to someone else's standards and expectations. Lol.

When discussing "if I won the lottery" stuff, it usually seems like people from my generation (Generation Y) would insta-retire/not work again if they won enough to be "set for life." Whereas people from my parents' generation, like 40-60 years old, would "continue to work" if they won the lottery. I don't know if it's a generation thing, or a maturity thing, or what not. But I guess some people do "like" work for some reason or another.

I am going with rap genius Biggie Smalls on this one, 1.45 million (rounded to $1.5) is what I will need to be set for life!

"I got a hundred bricks, fourteen-five a piece
Enough to cop a six, buy the house on the beach

Supply the peeps with Jeeps, brick apiece, capiche?
Everybody gettin' cream no one considered them leech
Think about it now, that's damn near one-point-five
I kill 'em all I'll be set for life, Frank pay attention"