Just because the end result is bad service doesn't mean the server put in less of an effort. In fact in the situations described they are usually working 2-3 times as hard as normal. Why shouldn't they get rewarded for that?

Wait-staff are not responsible for the ******ed decision to have two people on the first nice day of the year and now they are left covering multiple sections, dealing with pissed off patrons, and getting ****ty tips from cheap losers looking for an excuse to under tip.

Excellent post.

These types are absolutely nauseating. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if these self righteous indignant scumbags sit around and wait just to see the look on the server's face when they realize they were stiffed.

Total scum.

You are harming him by being a cheapskate and costing him his livelihood.

A beggar is different than a waiter since there is an implied agreement to tip based on adequate/good service. He is working under the impression he will be rewarded for it, not because he really likes you. There is no implicit agreement in walking past a beggar. However, it is your duty to pay for the service received.

This is like asking "why is it harming someone when I punch them in the face, when I could shoot them dead instead? He should be happy I let him live!"

Plenty of people in the US would agree and I believe the number of people who feel this way is increasing as the size and scope of our bloated government increases. Paying taxes just feeds the monster. I'd prefer to avoid trouble with the IRS and stay out of prison so of course I pay my taxes, but I'm doing it to avoid punishment only, not because I think it's the right thing to do. In fact, I'd feel better about burning the money than sending it to the IRS. Knowing that waitstaff are getting away with tax evasion makes me happy, and is probably my favorite thing about tipping.

Meh, I find it kinda bogus I have to live by all these implicit social agreements I never personally never agreed to.

I can see why people get mad at non-tippers at least, they think they are cheating the system and nobody likes a freeloader, but that's my fundamental disagreement I guess.

And I'm not like Mr. Pink or anything, I do tip, I just do it on my terms, not all these ones that are thrust upon me by all these imaginary social constructs.

By living in a country where tipping is customary, you are agreeing to that implicit social contract. You never personally signed anything stating that you won't have sex with girls under the age of 18, but it is still an implicit contract you are agreeing to by choosing to reside in that particular country.

If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to go eat at restaurants, nor are you being forced to continue to live somewhere that tipping in restaurants is customary. There are plenty of places where it is not.

You do agree to it by going into the restaurant. Don't like it? Don't go in! Only go to non-tipping establishments. Problem solved. This isn't something that is magically thrust upon you. I've never seen someone end up at a restaurant without actually stepping their own feet in there. This is something you choose to engage in and do business with. If you cannot afford the tips or do not agree with that amount, simply do not go. Open your own restaurant and encourage no tipping and pay your waiters more. See what kind of service and business you get. Maybe if its such a great idea, it will take off.

I feel much better about violating these types of social agreements since it is much harder to move to another country (especially when no country even exists for many things you may wish to do), but not going into a restaurant is very easy (compared to moving to a foreign land that may not even exist).

At least if you are going to be a cheapskate, announce it before your waiter seats you. Then at least he can be in on the deal too.

I'm not completely on board with Cotton here, but many of you are doing your best to prove his point.

WRT the "motivation" factor: if wages were upped to the point where tipping wasn't necessary, would the motivation to keep your job (esp. in this economy) not be sufficient?

And before anyone calls me the next Hitler: I almost always tip between 15-20% at restaurants.

I agree. They have a right to their opinion but some of the rhetoric here is absurdly shrill and self-righteous imo.

Can't speak for the others but my tone was a tongue-in-cheek response to the "moral outrage" thing. But I still believe low tippers are weasels.

LOL. I'm Canadian. Age of consent here is 16, so having sex with someone under 18 for me is perfectly legal.

I guess a better example would have been drinking age of 21. Or to use a societal norm instead of a law, there is a social agreement that you aren't going to go have sex with your buddy's gf.

Statutory rape is 16, so not sure why you said 18. If you did mean 18 instead of 16, I havent entered into any sort of implicit contract. I can bang any 18 year old I want and not worry about it.

You really have it wrong, nobody is forcing me to go eat at Earls, and nobody is forcing me to tip either. I may be looked at as a cheap clown, but some people know they're cheap and its par for the course. Thinking that because you live in the US or Canada means you have entered in an implicit contract to tip x% is false.

Stingy people are awesome


not

Here is a tipping question I have:

Say you are at a restaurant and you are getting crap service but the waiter is working really hard. Do you still give 15-20%

what if it is because the waiter has way more tables then they can handel?

what if it is because the waiter just sucks?

I get pissed when a waiter has to many tables. I don't feel like I should have to pay 15%. I do currently, but wonder what everyone is thinking.

I was a dessert maker for a few months at a Bobs Big Boy, The servers would tip us out at the end of their shifts.
I would get pissed when the servers would Fack up someones order and I had to make a free dessert.
NOw the ppl arent gonna tip what they would have, and the server is gonna jip me at then end and say they didnt make any tips.
How hard is it to put in an order??

Waiting

It's perfectly within your rights to tip or not tip as you choose. Just realize that you will get mocked for not tipping.

wat

If your Aunt had a dick I guess she'd be your uncle.

The problem is it is very difficult for the management to properly evaluate wait staff. They would really only hear about the most terrible ones and would have a hard time differentiating between adequate and great.

I'll cut a little slack if they are busy. If they are waiting too many tables, a low tip still would be accounted for by having more people tipping, so I typically wouldn't tip great, but wouldn't stiff. Probably 15% on those cases, where I normally would be in the 20-25% range. When I get poor service and see the waiter goofing off or just completely disappear, that's on him.

I had a waitress that provided pretty good service the other day but she totally forgot we were there at the end. We were in a weird building that had small rooms that would be easy to forget. They were pretty dead but had only a few people there. It took 20 minutes to get a check from her (after we had to hunt her down by walking around the place). I still tipped her decently since she did pretty much everything but remember to bring us the check. But another time in Vegas, we had a waiter who was just awful, was goofing off, and would constantly forget things. He got my pocket change. I've probably given less than 15% (on purpose) less than 5 times in my life. A rounding error on my behalf after drinking ended up screwing a guy pretty bad once, but I meant to tip him well.

You’re never going to stop people from tipping regardless. There will always be people willing to pay a little extra to ensure better than adequate service. Servers would still provide extra attention to known tippers and unknowns, while spending less time and attention on known stiffers. It would remain an arms race, and you’d still be looked down upon if you refused to reward good service.

In other words, everything stays the same.

I guess we weren't obnoxious enough.

Exactly my point. I tip well FWIW just didnt agree with the implicit contract crap.

I ran into this the other day and froze up. Whenever I get a coffee at the local indie shop by my apartment I always drop my change in the tip jar, whether it be $0.25 or $0.85. I always pay with cash, but the other day I ended up paying with card and probably did the worse possible thing. At first I rounded up $0.25 to simulate a cash transaction, then realized how stupid that was, but then did something even more ******ed and upped the tip to a big $0.75. I should have probably just tipped nothing, but I'm a semi-regular customer and don't mind tipping the staff. Should I have tipped $1 like it was a beer or something?