I have almost nothing to offer this OP. But I've been thinking a bit lately about sociopaths and people who do really bad things...ex - Jerry Sandusky.

I have [had] a close friend who basically came out as a sociopath in the past few months. Admitted to theft and rape, was surprised how I reacted, and said a bunch of other weird things.

What is it that separates sociopaths from regular people? It can't be inclusive to people who do bad things and misjudge how others perceive things. Do they have a different thought pattern than most before/during/after committing an act? Do you have to do something really bad to be a sociopath, or can you exist solely in narcissistic social realm without hurting anyone? Are all sociopaths bad?Are their motives unique? How do you spot a sociopath in a crowd of goodwill charismatic folk? What experiences have you had with sociopaths?

I am a diagnosed sociopath. My doctor doesn't like that word though, the common spectrum it falls under is "Anti-Social Personality Disorder." If you have anything specific you'd like to ask, go ahead.


It's a common misconception, one that you seem to be under, that sociopaths have a drive to "do bad things." They don't. They merely have a complete lack of remorse or a severely muted one. This doesn't necessarily mean they are going to go out raping people. I honestly believe there are probably more neutral sociopaths than malevolent ones. Maybe one or two "benevolent" ones, although I kind of laugh at this idea. There's been a huge push towards this within the sociopath community, but I'm not sure what to think of it really.


edit:

Oh yea, and just because someone does horrible things, it doesn't automatically make them a sociopath either.

Sociopaths have a relative lack of empathy compared to other people. They have difficulty understanding the emotions of others, tend to have low impulse control, and are highly manipulative. What this tends to lead to is a veneer of charm and sociability, but underneath they care nothing for the opinions or feelings of others - they are solely interested in doing what is necessary to get their own needs met in the most direct way possible. They have no sense of shame, so doing things that others consider shamefully (lying, stealing, etc.) don't phase them.

Their thought pattern is different from non-sociopaths because they don't have the same level of social conditioning. They can learn to mimic empathy and caring and concern, but underneath they don't really care about anyone other than themselves.

Sociopaths don't have to be criminals or hurt anyone physically, but they do tend to be callous and therefore hurt others emotionally, or at least they do so if the other person finds out that the sociopath has been lying to and manipulating them all along.

Sociopathy is not a clinical diagnosis, it's a trait, but it has much in common with antisocial personality disorder. They are difficult to spot because they are motivated to pretend to be like everyone else in order to get what they want, and have no compunction against lying or deceit. The fact that your friend told you indicates he has some awareness of his differences, and may be getting some type of therapy or treatment, but this is a pervasive mindset for a true sociopath that will touch all areas of their life. Ultimately, they aren't to be trusted in any way, except that you can always trust that they will do whatever they think is necessary to satisfy their own wants and desires.

Edit: I knew jamakinmecrazy would chime in here, he's talked before about being diagnosed with APD. He's probably the best one to ask about the actual thought processes someone who rates high on sociopathy go through.

This isn't something that is treated with medication, and scientists have no real idea why some people appear at even a young age to lack that sense of shame or conscience or whatever you want to call it that makes us feel bad when we lie or cheat or hurt someone's feelings. Ultimately, at least with our current understanding, sociopaths aren't responsible for their lack of empathy. They are only responsible for their actions, and there are plenty of law abiding sociopaths. It's just that when very high profile criminals come up (serial killers, for example), they tend to have a much higher than average rate of APD, so people get the idea that APD and sociopathy mean you are doomed to become the next Bundy or Gacy, and that's simply not the case.

people seem to think all sociopaths are like dexter morgan or someone from criminal minds. its actually something like 3 percent of the population. i think to be officially diagnosed with aspd you had to also have conduct disorder as a kid as well as some other stuff besides just a general dont give a **** about others.

eh I don't agree this is the case all the time. Just because someone is after their own interests all of the time (I consider most people to be this way if they are really honest with themselves) does not mean they cannot strike up a meaningful and mutually beneficial relationship with someone that's based on trust. Kind of like a ceasefire. Don't **** me, I won't **** you, and then we can keep this mutually beneficial situation going indefinitely. Does that make sense? The only danger here is a sociopath is more likely to be sensitive to what he or she may consider a slight or a blow to the ego, and that may cause a problem.

I think it's a huge flaw to think sociopaths are proactively walking around looking to screw people over. That just isn't how it is.


I have a close friend that I've discussed this at length with. He's one of the few I've talked to about my diagnosis, and he seems to be in denial about it. He just simply doesn't want to believe it, so we have this funny back and forth about trying to find the good in me. I usually can turn it around and tell him how something I did benefited me in some way.


The thought process is this, and I really believe this to be the case with your "average" sociopath - is that most of them are not too dangerous. Think about it. They couldn't be, because if 3% of the population was anything like Dahmer, it would be ****ing chaos out there. I have no ill will and wish no harm to the person on the street walking past me. I would never think to rob them or cheat them, because doing so has a high level of risk to my freedom and I can't tolerate that risk.

However, were he to drop a 100$ bill out of his pocket and keep going, I'd most definitely pick it up and keep walking. I am working on this, but that's a real life example.

Well, but if you consider having a friend to be beneficial, then you'll do what's necessary to keep that friendship, right?

I didn't mean to make it sound like sociopaths are just going to lie about everything, you are right about that. But they won't have a problem lying if they think it serves their purpose. However, to function in society in general, walking around pissing everyone else off wouldn't work very well. A sociopath might be doing the same thing as a non-sociopath (being friendly) but it might be for a different reason.

And, like with all things there are always going to be degrees. Some people who are diagnosed as APD are going to have specific ways that manifests behaviorally to greater or lesser degrees, so there's always going to be some variety in the clinical and social presentations.

Edit: But I agree, sociopaths in general aren't walking around just looking for spots to lie in, or how they can cheat, or whatever. Other than social connections, which most of them don't want at the same levels, they otherwise want what most people want - they want to be happy and get by. They just might use different methods to get there, or use the same methods for different reasons.

Oh yea, wow, I didn't even think about lying. Yea, that's a big one for me personally. I was thinking more along the lines of "causing harm to them to benefit myself" like stealing or ****ing their girlfriend. I consider lies mostly harmless. Can I ask why you seem to have such an interest in this anyway? You seem to have quite a lot of knowledge on the subject.

I'm finishing my Ph.D. in Counseling, and have a masters in Counseling Psych, plus my undergrad work was in criminology. I read a lot of research on what makes serial criminals tick as a hobby, which has led to a lot of stuff on sociopathy and APD.

I've never worked with an APD client, but I did have one that was a combination of Histrionic and Narcissistic, which are both cluster B personality disorders as well (as is APD). Sessions with that one were never boring, I can say that.

SGT; I've seen the textbook definition of sociopath and for the life of me I don't understand how anyone can not be diagnosed as a sociopath. I mean, aren't you a sociopath under that criteria? Also, I'm unclear on what the difference is between a sociopath and a psychopath.

Sociopath and psychopath are used interchangeably. There's no real difference.

Everyone acts in their own self-interests. However, most of us have certain limits over what we're willing to do to attain our goasl and fulfill our needs/desires, and a lot of those limits have to do with guilt/shame and social conditioning.

We don't lie because we were told as children that lying is bad and hurts other people and we feel bad when we lie. Same thing with cheating and stealing. These are mild variations of larger issues that most of us would never do either (physically hurt someone, force someone to do something against their will, etc.).

It's conscience, for lack of a better word, and social conditioning that inhibits some behaviors that we might otherwise do in order to get what we want. Sociopaths lack (or have severely muted) that conditioning/conscience.

The lack of empathy is a huge issue as well. Studies with sociopaths have shown that they have a real problem identifying the emotions of others. They seem to lack the actual brain capacity to recognize others emotions and put themselves in that other persons place. No one really understands why that fails to develop.

Edit: And, again, sociopathy is a trait, not a diagnosis. We all score somewhere on this trait. A "sociopath" will score very high; non-sociopaths would score low to moderate. But we're all capable of acting in our own self-interest, and under the correct circumstances would act in a "sociopathic" manner (lie, cheat, steal, even kill). Non-sociopaths just score much lower on this trait, have much higher empathy scores, and would claim to be inhibited from engaging in certain behaviors because they would feel bad (or recognize it could hurt others) if they did so.

I'm curious to know what textbook definition you're using that you think applies to everyone. Could you explain your understanding of sociopathy?

I have no idea if any of this is true, but it sounds like it could be: http://voices.yahoo.com/sociopath-vs...24.html?cat=72

Meh. There is no diagnosis of either "sociopathy" or "psychopathy" under the DSM-IV-TR (the handbook for mental health diagnosis).

I guess if they want to make the distinction that a psychopath engages in more criminal behavior and has more overt behaviors (and so are higher on the sociopathy trait scales) that's a fair distinction, but there's no reason anyone outside of this type of research would need to make that fine a distinction. In popular culture, and for most purposes, the terms are used interchangeably.

CUZ ITS FUN TO DO BAD THINGS

what a shock that half the posts so far are from SGT RJ.

You guys should totally come up with some cool-sounding distinction like "Sociopaths feel no pain whereas psychopaths feel pain but just don't care."