I'm currently working in the operations department of a software company as an engineer. Because of my successful implementation of a highly visible project and good overall relationships with many people in related departments, i'm being considered for a promotion (maybe lateral move?) to IT as a project manager. As before, I will have no direct reports and will report to a manager who manages a team of 10, who I will manage projects for.

When the offer comes, do I negotiate the salary? Or is this not acceptable for an internal move.

How much do they care about keeping me in the company?

My current job is my first real career job and I am clueless. I need your help!

Negotiating during a promotion is possible in some cases. There are many factors that can go into your decision. And those famous words apply as well...it depends.

If you are happy in your present position and comfortable with your current salary then you have to weigh the benefits of accepting the promotion in the first place. Will it give you opportunities in the future for growth? How visible will you be to upper management? etc.

IMO the best way to handle it is to consider your current situation and how comfortable you are with your current responsiblities and weigh that against the new position and its responsibilities. Put a figure in your mind based on those factors and wait for the offer. If it is close to the figure then accept or decline based on the job alone. If it isn't close then politely ask the manager making the offer if there is any room for an upward shift in salary. He/She will most likely tell you if it is possible.

Good Luck.

If this turns out to be a lateral move...this ^^^ would be what I would focus on...assuming, of course, the responsibilities and pay for the new position aren't out-of-whack when compared to your current position.

Do you foresee any issues with declining the offer for any reason? Would that be "frowned upon"? I assume it would come down to your explanation, but are you aware of any prior issues of this nature at this company?

Also, is there a consistent amount of lateral moving at this level in your company? At the company I currently work for, once people reach a certain level (typically senior mgr and above), they are expected to make a few lateral moves to develop some breadth before going after the next bump.

congrats.

The posts above are good coverage of the non-salary areas.

AFAIAC, of course you negotiate salary, if you can! It's not often you can escape the annual % rut.

The questions will be: what's the market rate for PMs? Will you be learning as you go, or will you be increasing your skills and your utilization?

How does PM compare to engineer in your company, on the ladder?

These questions will affect your success. I'd aim for at least a little bump, if you can pull it off.

As an owner of an IT company, I have a slightly different perspective....

If you were successful for the project, and the result is a possible promotion with higher pay, negotiating to HIGHER than the increase being presented can come across as very greedy, and taint your somewhat golden image.

For me, it would leave me saying "This guy did some great things, I reward him (promotion and pay raise) and all he can think about is wanting MORE?"

how about "this guy just made me a lot of money, if I pay him more he can make me more money"

I'm confused by the logic of the promotion. You're a successful engineer, so they want to make you a ProjM? Don't those positions require largely different skill sets?

I'm hesitant to invoke the Peter Principle because I can't say you'll be incompetent in the new role, but this does sound like they're promoting you away from a position where you can use the skills you've demonstrated so far.

And regarding the salary negotiation -- you can always negotiate as long as you're honestly willing to quit if you don't get what you want. Without that, I don't think you have much leverage.

DO NOT mention any other salaries of colleagues or equivalent positions at different companies. I presume this is obvious but you never know.

Business is weird. Presenting market rates for similar positions at different companies is a no-no?

I would recommend the following:

1. Hopefully you know who the decision maker is and/or who will be making you the offer. Based on your post, it seems you will know, and also likely have a good relationship with this person. This is a huge benefit for you.

2. Approach that person one-on-one off the record and discuss the coming move.

3. When doing so, it is perfectly reasonable to ask "what is being discussed" in terms of a move/compensation.

4. If you don't get stonewalled (and in my experience it would be unlikely that you do get stonewalled), then you can kinda drop "man, that would be awesome, but considering some of my successes/etc (fill in your own blanks) it would really mean a lot to me if the offer ended up in the range of $xx."

5. See how it is received and go from there.


Dealing with this stuff behind closed doors but before the official offer is WAY more effective than after the fact. I've seen it time and time again. Leverage those relationships, engage them as an ally, see what they have planned, try and get a little more/whatever you think is more reasonable.

Thanks for the advice guys.

The move would be to a job that I am more interested in because of the type of work (PM don't need to do technical stuff, just need to understand it.) It probably is a more visible job too, I'm not sure, but I will definitely learn a lot more in this position as I feel that I have outgrown my current job.

I don't have the offer yet but I'm guessing it will be in the same range. My current pay is $33/hour. With lots of overtime available, but I'm lazy, so I make around 75k/year. The new position will be salaried and I'm guessing for new PM's it will be around that range.

But with this new position, I know I will have to work a lot harder, managing at least 5 concurrent projects. Because of this I feel like I would be happy with 80k a year.

In short, I definitely want the new job, and would like to be fairly compensated because of the new workload. And I wasn't sure when the job is offered, me negotiating would make me look like what Chief911 said- ungrateful.

Then again, I haven't had a raise for over 2 years because of company wide shutdown of annual reviews due to the economy. I did get a small bonus instead of a raise though for the last review date.

We can't answer this for you - and you should really try to figure out the answer. There are lots of factors: how big the company is, what past projects you've worked on, the average skill level at the company, your companies geographical location, their ability to attract other talent, and so on.

What's your best guess?

How big is your company?

It seems silly to take something like a salary negotiation personally. You're making money off your employee. Your employee is making money off of you. It should be a mutually beneficial relationship - and to think that you should just arbitrarily set the terms of the relationship and get offended if the employee tries to do better seems a little silly.

Put it this way - do you ever negotiate with your clients? If so, should they be offended and cancel any contracts with you?

This type of thinking is similar to "I put so much in the pot already, I just need to put a little more" instead of thinking of the current situation in terms of expected value.

But this type of thinking is prevalent every where including business deals. Human psychology is that it is I guess.

If the promotion comes with a pay raise and you really think you deserve more then accept the promotion, do a good job for maybe 4-6 months, then ask for a raise. If there is no pay raise with the promotion, i'd definitely ask for one if you feel you are really entitled to it, although prepare a serious list of reasons for why you deserve the raise (and any defences if you're faced with resistance), and work your ass off because when you ask for a raise that is given to you your superiors will be in you business making sure the company is getting their moniez worth.

good advice, im probably going to do this.

Get raise now not later. Leverage + goodwill is high now.

I agree. Plus determining a salary at the same time as you're getting a new position with new responsibilities is pretty standard. Waiting four months then trying seems like you didn't really understand your role or that you're kind of unhappy with it.

The best engineering PMs are going to have engineering experience. Not every engineer will make a good PM, but almost all non engineers will suck as engineering PMs. There are exceptions, but they are quite rare. If you can't communicate effectively with who is working on the project and understand the issues that come up, you will suck at the job.

QFT

Well, that depends on your perspective. I don't know too many business owners who are offering at the top of the scale, if they can offer at the bottom... so why would you take the stance that a job applicant is being greedy, for trying to get what they think they are worth?

Isn't that what negotiation is all about?

Kinda what Clark said if you're smart you'll talk to people privately before you ever get the offer. It will help you and them set expectations.

You said this move is kinda lateral. How do you know they are going to offer you more money? It's kinda implied but have they flat out told you? IME regular PMs don't make tons of money and they might just expect that you change jobs with no increase in pay.

Also, why are you taking this job? Just because they offered it to you or because it's what you really want to do? If you've gone around telling everyone that it's what you really what to do and then you pull the "give me more money" angle you could come off as disingenuous and people might think that you really just wanted the job for a raise.

Again, takes Clark's advice and talk to people informally now.

Which part of "He's already being offered a raise and promotion...which he earned and deserved" makes you think he isnt being offered more money?

Also...we dont know a lot of details about the project OP rocked out. Maybe he just did a super job, not necessarily made the company loads of $$.

You are absolutely right. It is a symbiotic relationship.

I dont get horribly offended, but it changes my perspective on that person.

I'm still very curious on how large your company is.