Sexuality and status absolutely are strongly intertwined, and I agree with OP that raising one's status is a big aspect of chasing women. The concept of "women you'd be embarrassed to be seen having sex with" seems strikingly common and hard to explain except through ideas like this. I also think that at this basic a level social dynamics are strongly biological, and splitting this into nature vs. nurture seems really difficult to achieve.

I also agree with the prevailing opinion that a lot of this is rationalization. I suspect that some of this is that the causality might be backwards. People want to have sex and find mates, and high status is a strong attractor. Demonstrating a strong ability to pull tail then becomes a status marker because it's behavior that high status dudes are going to do anyway of their own inclinations. I don't think most people find the system hollow, and I certainly think very few people think about this sort of stuff consciously.

VanVeen used to talk about this sort of thing quite a bit on here, and in one post he commented that he basically never discussed the status stuff in real life. While I'm not certain why that is, I'm pretty sure it's because you look like a crazy egghead when you talk about this sort of thing. I feel like a recurring theme in other contexts is that implicit communication is much more strongly valued than explicit communication (e.g. the stereotype of nerdy guys getting infuriated when women do not openly and directly communicate their desires; the irritation many people feel at PUA discussions). Thus talking openly about this sort of stuff is taboo. It's an interesting dynamic.

Could you expand on this? Personally, I enjoy thinking and acting in a way that runs contrary to "the role expected of me by society" Why should you desire to fit into that mold? Most achievements in the sciences are accomplished by an individual or a small group of individuals, and not by any notable segment of "society".

btw, I'm not sure that society exists as such, and that life is merely a collection of individuals and resources, but I haven't thought about this too much.

But isn't it?

Why should it matter how you "look"? Shouldn't the issue be whether or not your arguments are valid? Ideas should stand or fall on their own.

The problem here is that you are trying to logic your way out of your desires and insecurities. You are trying to use logic to bring you above your humanity. You arent a logical statement though, you are a biological being with biological needs. This thread wouldnt exist if you didnt actually want women in your life, also you wouldnt wank every day (amirite?) if this wasnt an area causing you turmoil from within. The drive to get women is right up there with the drive to eat and breathe. Society doesn't put pressure on me to eat, I do it because I want to live. Obviously not having sex wont kill you, but it will cause you harm psychologically, as you are proof of.

Now you have been a failure in this area of your life thus far. Accept this. Dont beat yourself up over this fact though. Its not the fact that you are a 20 something year old virgin that is the problem. Its your own interpretation of this situation that needs work. As I said before Step 1 is admitting you have this problem. Step 2 is fixing it. Hit the gym, focus on advancing your career/studies, and work to gain confidence and direction into your life, and you will become a more desirable mate. This is the only constructive way to deal with your situation. Moping and waxing philosophically about this problem wont correct it. Get out there and take the steps needed to improve this area of your life, and the problem will go away.

Some questions for you if you don't mind answering (understand if you ignore), but I suspect your answers to these questions will provide better responses to your OP:

1) How old are you?

2) Are you a virgin? (If "yes", please skip to Question 5)

3) How many times have you had sex in your life? # Partners/ # Sessions

4) On a scale of 1 to 10, how enjoyable is sex relative to other activities you enjoy?

5) How many women have you dated that referred to you as her "boyfriend"?

6) Have you ever paid for sexual activity of any kind (e.g. strip club "extras", massage with full release, prostitue etc).? If so, would you do it again?

I disagree with the bolded. Is there any evidence of this? Are the orgasms one can achieve by one's self "psychologically inferior" (it's funny phrasing but youknowwhatImean) to ones achieved with a partner?

My post isn't an attempt to ridicule you; it's just that in general this kind of rationalization (wherein society has its priorities all wrong and OP is the only clear-eyed person) usually reeks of, well, rationalization. Which isn't to say that society doesn't sometimes have screwed up priorities, but the idea people get laid and have relationships out of some sense of societal obligation is kind of lol on its face.

Also, most people are not the type of cartoonish alpha male you're describing, nor do most women (or men) expect or want you to be that. You're overthinking something very simple here.

I agree with a lot of what the OP mentions. Inherently, there is extremely strong social conditioning present in every aspect of our daily lives. And not all of it really is super helpful, fun, or really tailored directly towards us as an individual.

I'd guess the "desire to get 'mad pussy'" is partially genetic and also socially conditioned for sure. There are tons of methods towards propagating one's genes and there are a bunch of potential approaches that seem less effective on the surface but may have a lot of long-term value (like why would being gay be part of genetic makeup if it doesn't directly correlate towards offspring?). But the "mad" part imo seems socially constructed. Not all guys want to have sex all the time with hot women and not all women want to be swept off their feet all the time by manly men - society just projects those default scenarios as quintessential.

Anyway, for other aspects of your life, it may be easier to go against the social norm or find the space that you will enjoy more. But it for sure is super difficult to go about developing a sexual relationship if you aren't willing to navigate the already established social constructs already in place. In the US that has a lot to do with things we equate with status - $, power, respect, etc. But there are other qualities that can be attractive too if you can figure out how to demonstrate them - trustworthiness, belief in yourself in others, intelligence, etc.

I dno, just b/c there are already preset rules, you don't actually have to play by them. If you want to not care about having sex with someone and only talk to women about 19th century existential philosophy, if you demonstrate your personality in a way consistent with yourself and comfort in the approach I'm sure it would work. Probably work super well actually, imo .

In all of the recent OOT threads on this topic, multiple posters are strongly opposed to "overthinking" or "overanalysis". What does this even mean? Isn't analysis good? Isn't that how we learn things? How is it possible to overdo it?

I guarantee you the girls aren't doing this

You learn by doing, and making mistakes, not by hypothetical discussions with fellow virgins on the Internet. In the end this is all just unproductive rationalization and nothing is being learned

no it's a consequence of evolution.

Well I never said society is wrong. The members of society are certainly creating suffering for me, but I am not the centre of the universe (and everyone experiences suffering).

It's interesting that you are calling this a rationalization because it seems like that is a common response to ideas that kind of go against "the norm". It is important to note that calling something a rationalization is not really an argument (it's more just name calling), and it has very little persuasive value to someone like me.

And yeah I concede that biological forces are the main reason for reproductive instincts, but I also believe that a lot of the suffering the arises out of these kinds of pursuits are inflicted by societal pressures and not just biology. Also, when someone's biological desires are not in line with society's then one has to fear persecution either indirectly or directly.

I have to admit Im no psychologist, but my best bet from both personal experience, and consensus from an admittedly small sample size, would be that the answer is yes.

Ive dealt with similar issues myself, and had similar logical discussions in my own mind dealing with both what op said, as well as having considered more or less word for word your argument. The conclusion I have come (phrasing) to is that being with a partner is in fact more satisfying than doing it alone. Doing it alone leads to rationalizing thoughts similar to hey i got off, this is just as good as the real thing. It is also clearly your brain lying to itself to protect some self esteem imo. Though its hard to put in words there is something about the real thing that feels to me to be more "psychologically satisfying" than a computer screen. Like I said before though Im in no position to prove this but my best bet is that both the vast majority of human experience, as well as science if an appropriate experiment were to be conducted, would agree.

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It is possible that instinctual pats of your brain that are supposed to understand the subliminal parts of human interaction are not functioning normally, as would be the case with Aspergers (if I am not mistaken). In these situations I would argue that such analysis is perhaps the only viable option.