Women just want you to be your own person deserving of respect. If you are nice but have boundaries and don't put up with crap, you'll be fine.

The reality is, they have this whole narrative where nice guys aren't really nice because nice guys just want to sleep with them. Which is and isn't true- of course nice guys want to sleep with them, just like the other guys do. Women don't have a comfortable narrative for dealing with this, so they tell themselves that nice guys are really jerks because nice guys get bitter and upset when they go out on dates and finally make a move after a month the girl rejects them. Girl acts shocked and pretends she had no idea what was going on when both parties knew exactly why the guy was hanging out with them.

It's part of the game, being honest about your intentions but only by showing, not saying. But the truth is most nice guys are actually nice, they're just losers and they're getting played. Their bitterness is a reaction to that; girls then use this to justify their own self-serving behavior- "oh look he was a jerk anyways (not like the guy who took me to the bathroom in the club and then didn't remember my name when I saw him a week later, yeah I should see what that guy's up to tonight."

It's probably less "she's getting her way all the time" and more "this guy doesn't look out for himself, does everything I say, and lacks personal convictions" and that's not the kind of person a lot of people find valuable. @Eyefore

I think this idea the girl "needs a challenge" is a little... fake? And it's a more basic value judgement.

Of course being a jerk all the time shouldn't get you anywhere in a relationship,at least in a happy one.

But do this in a social setting, look at the couples and notice how they treat each other.
You might notice the woman trying to please her mate more than a man trying to please his.

When a guy does something jerkish or is in a bad mood, the woman will try to fix it, or at least be more attentive to him.

Whereas if the guy is friendly and getting along, he often is ignored by his mate.

Not saying its right,I don't understand it, but I've seen it too much to not notice.





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Using that video example as proof is pretty stupid. There's numerous factors that come up after dating someone for a few weeks/months/years, and the percentage of times somebody dumps somebody because the person is simply "too nice" is going to be miniscule.

Maybe the dude is dull. Maybe he smells sometimes. Maybe he doesn't have his act together. Maybe he has different life plans. Maybe they're not physically compatible. Maybe he's pledging love and allegiance to her after half a date which is ****ing weird and scary.

If you're going out on multiple "dates" for "a month" and then "finally make a move", you are a massive loser/idiot. As you and some others have semi-suggested, this is the whole crux of the problem.

Stop being a loser.

Nah. You're just a misogynist (this is clear from several recent posts here and other subforums) seeing what you want to see.

Amazing, you make what could be said is a more sexist statement to both sexes and im the misogynist.



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Are we talking high school/college or adult relationships?

Are there women that just string guys along? Sure, women can be *******s, no question.

But let's not pretend that the standard "nice guys finish last I should try being a dick because bad boys get all the ladies" whine is anything more than men who refuse to examine why they aren't successful in relationships and instead just throw up their hands, proclaim themselves such nice guys that they don't get why women aren't just throwing pussy their way and ignoring their actual issues, whatever those may be.

Being nice as your defining feature is the laziest, most trite cliche there is in dating today, and frankly if that is your defining feature, it's not enough. I expect most people (and I think most people are) to be nice, or at least socially polite, and I encounter hundreds of randos in a given week - most of them are nice, or at least not actively dickish on first impression. You might as well play up that you wear clean clothes that you pick out your own self. We expect as much from functioning adults, and I'd be willing to wager a pretty good sum that the vast majority of people who were told "you're too nice" as a reason for a breakup or why the person didn't want to date them in the first place were being gently lied to. Because either the real reason sounds too harsh, or because she (or he) doesn't really know why they aren't feeling the other person, they just aren't, but are being pressured for a reason.

Bottom line - being nice is the bare minimum of social standards. Most guys who get women are in fact nice, that's just not their sole defining characteristic. Most guys who think their niceness is their best attribute are a) often severely deficient in other things potential mates are looking for and/or b) aren't even that nice, especially when they are told "no."

LOL at a bunch of dudes thinking they understand women and what they want.

Sooner you figure out you aren't a nice guy the better off you'll be. We're men, deep down none of us are nice and struggle to not undress any average looking girl with our eyes. I'll say I'm nice butt like SGT said no awards for that. You're expected to be nice but there are those girls who will stay with a guy who isn't "nice". He does none of the basic stuff expected and it's mind blowing when a girl stays with him.

Certainly disagree with the notion that you shouldn't be up front with a girl on your intentions either. Some of them dig it, all depends.

SGT I will say this though, I have tested a super duper ******* alter ego of myself on a few girls and the success rate on closing is 100%. I don't even like playing the character because it makes me feel dirty.

I turned down sex with one of the hottest two women I've ever slept with because I don't want to screw it up with the other one. The way she acted after I said no makes me confident it was the right decision.

Ahahahahahah, that has probably never happened to her. She's going to be in love with you forever.

QFT

Regarding being too nice etc makes me think of the time I met my ex. She was an absolute sweetheart, girl-next-door, loved baking, looking after animals, loyal, cute, totally non-slutty.

The first time I met her I was drunk and giving no fks. I told her I wanted to take her home and slap her round a little.

We stayed together for 4 years.

Had a date last night with a girl who had some interesting takes on opening messages.

Said she hates it when guys make a big effort to mention something from her profile, rolls her eyes to it etc. Prefers a simple 'hi'.

Might stop making too much effort and just opt for a simple 'Drinks Wednesday?'

Every list of "online dating tips" I have ever seen says you should mention something from their profile in your first message, so they know you didn't just look at the pictures and do a cut-and-paste standardized letter.

Got the same experience. New on the Tinder game so i went and browsed reddit a lot and the main thing that came out was DO NOT just sayi "hi whats up" but talking to other women it seems like "hey" is a good enough way to approach and not a killer by any mean so kinda requestioning all that

As a guy I hate receiving a "Hey what's up" or "Hi" message because I know it's totally unacceptable for me to send one. Also it doesn't promote or advance conversation at all. I can't imagine and don't want to know the person who prefers them.

Basically comes down to if she thinks they're hot.

That's all that is.

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I think it's best to send something bespoke. Maybe she's unique and really does like just "hi" but imo she dislikes 200 words "try too hard" openers. A couple of sentences that include a specific reference to one of her photos ("Is that Angkor Wat? It looks incredible, what's the best time of year to visit?") the area she lives ("Have you been to Los Sombreros? I hear great things - is it worth checking out?") or one of her interests ("One Thousand Years of Solitude is great. Have you read Love In The Time of Cholera? I think it's even better") etc. is a dominant opener to "hi".

(Those opening lines are lame and generic imo but better than hi).

I turned down sex one time(actually three times) because if i did it, she could have made me do anything,she was super hott, way outta my league.

I was asking her why she liked me,and she had no idea,she just did.

(Figure that one out)

This was over a period of ten years or so.

Every once in a while she would ask me out,three times i know she just straight up asked me to **** her

I hope I've avoided a murder charge or two, because if she had asked me to whack someone after sex....

I definitely would.

The kicker...

Her cousin hated me for some reason,always p blocking me, even though i was doing it to myself as well.

She was really cute,but her bitchy attitude was a total turnoff .

Til her cousin finally gave up on me....

Then she came on to me.

Hard...

And i was so stunned and confused I turned her down.

But she didn't get upset, she immediately moved on.

Wow,thanks for the depression,Bobbo....

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That girl is full of **** and she doesn't sound fun to begin with. Pass.

Maybe MVP's date really liked him and is now trying to sabotage him with future girls!

There will always be exceptions but in general just sending "hey" is pretty bad unless you are hot enough that people will just want to **** you on sight.

What % of women AREN'T basing their response (or lack thereof) to messages from guys on how attractive they think the guy is?
It has to be something like 95% looks, 5% message content.
Its not like meeting a girl at at bar where the girls are likely drunk/uninhibited/half blind and can be easily swayed by a little humor or sweet talk. Online, if she doesn't like your pics at all, you have basically zero shot no matter what you write or don't write.

Eh, maybe a little high percentage but i think a majority of online men and women are primarily going off looks.

Its just the nature of the beast.

Real life impressions are different, you can make a definite impression that can help you overcome shortcomings as opposed to a picture and a wall of text that can easily be misunderstood

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It's more like, the hotter you are, the less effort you have to make in appearing interesting/funny/whatever, particularly on apps like Tinder that have more of a casual hook up vibe. It's more a sliding scale than a straight hot or not, yes/no equation.

On a more traditional dating site I think the number of guys who can get away with stuff like "sup" is much lower. I can't be the only one who never responded to one word messages regardless of how the guy looked. But then I never got a one word message from Daniel Craig so who knows.