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Originally Posted by Dids
kerowo.
Read Clare's posts and actually argue against what he's saying. You're just foaming at the mouth and missing what he's saying and clowning up this thread.
OK
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Originally Posted by Clare Quilty
I kind of agree with Holliday. While of course TDK/Batman didn't directly cause this, I'm leery of the insta-pass everyone seems to always want to give movies/music/media on causality issues. Even if TDK didn't support random extreme violence, it fetishized it to a lurid degree through Ledger's performance.
In the same sense, I'm skeptical of people who lol and dismiss out of hand the effect of, say, gangsta rap (lol old white people) on criminal behavior. Of course Jay-Z or whoever isn't putting the gun in anyone's hand, but they are in certain ways glorifying theft/drug dealing and murder. To say that that has no impact on the larger culture seems ridiculous to me.
Should Nolan be held legally responsible? Lolno. Is Nolan responsible for, by fetishizing chaos in a spectacular manner, maybe a sliver of the ongoing cultural coarsening that can affect mentally ill people like Holmes. Yes imo.
It caused it or it didn't. Every time there is a tragedy like this one of the first things that get brought up is violent lyrics, violent games, violent moves.
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Originally Posted by Clare Quilty
No, that's not the suggestion. I would just like a little more intellectual honesty in the discussion, that's all. My take is that the "LOL OF COURSE MEDIA HAS NO EFFECT ON SOCIETY" side has a vested interest in believing this is so. People like their violent movies and violent/sexist rap and porn and whatever else, and for the sake of ideological purity they can't allow for any nuance.
I mean, I like that stuff, too, but it seems really obvious to me that that it does have an effect. Even leaving aside the question of whether it pushes crazy people over the edge, it exerts a massive influence on the larger culture, and often not a good one.
I would like some too. What are you saying? It had an effect but it didn't cause the shooting? I went to WSU and may not understand your language, can you simplify it for me? How much responsibility does violent media have on this event? How did you get to that number? Do we know how much Holmes watched yet?
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Originally Posted by Clare Quilty
Oh, you're right. I forgot this had already been settled
The reason I say that it has been settled is that a few weeks/months after events like this the media stops talking about the connection to violent media. My assumption, and again, y'all know how stupid I am, is that if there had ever, even once, been a concrete link between violent media and disturbed people doing horrific things it would have already been trotted out. It would have already been used by Parents Against Fun to put stricter controls on violence in the media.
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Originally Posted by Clare Quilty
No one is saying they cause it. But you guys are certainly welcome to continue arguing against what you think I'm saying.
Also, haven't video games been pretty conclusively proven to change behavior and neurological patterns? A second of googling says this is so, but if you'd like me to link some I'd be happy to do so.
I think you're saying that violent media, in particular TDK, is in some way to blame for what happened Friday night. I don't think it had any causal relationship with the shooting.
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Originally Posted by Clare Quilty
Last edited by Dids; Today at 07:23 PM.
Stay classy Clare