This is absurd. Have you ever hit a baseball/softball? Go get a bat and start hitting fences/trees/etc with it. You're out of your mind if you think you are going to simply deflect my bat swing and just keep coming right at me, as if your arm will be the only thing affected. You will be knocked off course at an absolute minimum.

Knife guys are all, "Bat path is so predictable." As if the bat guys are just going to stand there and let you stab them.

People get stabbed multiple times in fights and survive without much damage. It's not like one stab is automatic organ puncture/death.

Martial arts is irrelevant. Random dudes.

Alright point taken... I mean obviously a bat is an excellent weapon and I did say earlier, in any sort of actual real life confrontation I think a bat is 100x better than a knife. But even if you land a blow solidly with a bad to the ribs, etc... I just don't see it being enough, in an actual fight to the death.

Also, I'd say that the combat skill of the opponents affects it... for example, with two completely untrained individuals, it's close to even or possibly advantage bat. As the combat skill and experience increases the knife gains more and more advantage, because with combat experience comes ability to close distance and deflect blows (which is all that's needed to get past the initial range of the bat).

And definitely if you land a solid blow, you're going to do some serious damage. You might even break an arm. But how quickly can you repeat powerful, effective batswings? I feel like maybe 1 every second or two? I mean it really doesn't take much time to cover the distance necessary to severely reduce the effectiveness of the bat.

Also to the people saying that hitting someone with the bat will slow them down: how? The blow is coming from the side, if the knife charger has momentum forward it's unlikely that even a devastating bat strike is going to stop them completely. It might stun someone a bit, but it's also not like getting blindsided... being prepared/expecting to get slugged makes a big difference.

Random dudes of equal skill. It's easier to get close in a fight than it is to maintain range. A knife can kill someone in more ways and with less force/skill. Obviously you can [censored] someone up with a bat, that's not the point of the argument though. A knife is designed to kill and it requires less effort, accuracy and skill to do the same/more damage than can be done with a bat.

Also yeah it's quite possibly to take a full power bat swing and not be crushed, as unbelievable as a lot of people ITT seem to think that is.

Again I'm not saying you can't hurt someone with a bat, and if I'm on the street in a fight I'd rather have a bat because of all the reasons you're giving: you can strike first, it's intimidating, you can generate a lot of power, etc. But in a fight to the death between equally skilled combatants I don't see how it's even possible to argue against the implement that was designed to kill people.

butter fly knife VS bat


people of equal skill and equal size, I gotta go with teh knife. for everyone saying that the bat gives you so much more of a reach advantage, this isnt really true, its like 2.5 to 3 extra feet, and fairly easy to dodge a bat. Ive seen a dude with a bat get his ass kicked vs a guy with nothing in his hand, so I cant see the guy with teh bat winning.

stationary vs moving targets

I can crush a baseball off a tee, or if it is lobbed in there, but against a MLB pitch I'd rarely make good contact

Ease up man, we're just talking here.

While my hip-shattering may not be completely accurate (at least give me a chip), all I'm trying to say is there's a lot of surface area I can hit you that will render you useless long enough for me to get a proper crush in. I just can't see anyone go completely unfazed by even a moderately powerful swing.

1. watch the youtube video
2. listen to people who have martial arts/weapon training experience (hint: they are all picking the same thing)
3. ???
4. PROFIT

Well I guess I'm working from the assumption that the knife person won't enter the striking range of the bat person until he decides to charge, and at that point will go through that range as quickly as possible to get to close range, where he will have the decided advantage.

I am starting to think that among totally unskilled combatants it's closer than I had originally given it credit for. But the criteria is equal and not necessarily unskilled... I think any fighting experience (including just bar fights, etc) gives significant advantage to the knife, simply because the bat's effective range is relatively specific. Illustrated here:



I think that if you took two random, average 25 year old males and repeated this fight to the death 1000 times there's no way knife doesn't win 750+

the other thing is, the guy with the knife can afford to slip up once or twice, becuase landing a death blow with a bat is farily hard becuase you have to swing the thing with some force, and hit a smallish moving object (head), if the guy with the bat slips up even once, hes gone.

I'm probably underestimating the ease with which knife guy can get in close range. But I think some of you may be overestimating the ability to stay in that range. It's not like once you break through one time the bat becomes useless. I have zero training but I think I could jump around pretty well while simultaneously getting 75% shots in with the bat. Your first knife shot is going to have to be a pretty good one to keep me from hitting you 3-4 times. And each time is going to knock you somewhat off balance. It doesn't take me long to reload as I can swing both directions while hopping around, so each time you lose your balance it's that much more likely I will hit you again. Bleh I'm already bored with this.

Seriously someone needs to film a test using nerf bats and some blunt instrument. It could be hilarious.

See I disagree. I don't think one blow with a knife is automatic win. His target is going to be moving as well. Also, at least some of the time, the knife hand is going to take a bat blow and either break the hand or knock the knife out. Then it's over.

Yea but once you get range, with the knife, you can use your other hand to grab the other person's shirt/arm/body and hang on long enough to get some pretty good cuts in.

I also second the nerf video demonstration lol

Also, we are consistently talking as if the guy with the bat can't miss, the guy with the knife always charges first, and the guy with the knife always gets hit. None of those things are true.

And if the guy with the bat swings first and misses, or isn't quick enough to bring the bat around his body before the guy with the knife charges in real close or even just crashes into him and so pretty much prevents any bat landings, bat guy is dead without really doing a thing to knife guy. Bat guy is really in trouble with any kind of slip up at all. Knife guy can slip up almost catastrophically and still might pull out a win.

I would have to vote for the knife also.

Its not directly applicable, but in Muay Thai, just sliding a foot or so out of the strike area with a kick can almost take all the power away from it. We train this all the time and even though a bat strike would be harder, the theory should be the same of the draw back and follow through being absorbable.

Ideally all you would need to do is rush in, then when he swings slide to the slide away (but still in the bats swing plane)and grab the bat..It should take away enough power to where it wont hurt to bad and you can get in there and stab away..

Even if this is not possible, I still have to go with the knife. In a fight to the death (which I guess this is), while the bat can do good damage over time (assuming someone could avoid a headshot), I think adrenaline and mobility gives the knife a advantage to move in a win quick..

If bat guy is moving, he's not swinging, which is great for knife guy. If bat guy is swinging, he's not moving. For purposes of serious blows, we've got to assume bat guy is stationary.

Knife hand being anywhere near slow enough to take a blow from bat is extremely unlikely. A hand with a knife can move very fast. Swinging a bat is a much slower, highly telegraphed motion.

In a true spirit of détente, I am somewhat changing my view. Knifers make good arguments. I'll still take the bat, but it's much closer than I originally thought.

Blarg I can seriously swing a bat back and forth pretty quickly, while moving a little, such that it would be more difficult than you think to get your knife hand in close to my body.

But I really think this thread is exhausted without video trials. Someone more motivated than I needs to step up. Actually, if it takes place in Twin Cities, I'll volunteer to show up with a camera and/or participate.

link in my earlier post was effed up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0kC11cq8KQ
Classic In Living Color skit. Not as funny as I remember it, but very relevant.

I'm starting to see the knifer POV also, but I'll still stick with bat.

Knifers - did you watch the youtube vid? What would you do differently as the knifer? (I admit the knifer could have put on a much better display.) I think one thing is clear though: the raw fear when seeing a dude swinging wildly at you is enough to make you think twice about sticking around with a knife. Average joes can't control this aspect as well as seasoned fighters.

Here's my idea. Wiffleball bat covered with paint versus paintbrush representing the knife. Video camera. YouTube.

gogogogo

I agree, the bat is very intimidating (one of its strengths as a weapon), but if the fight is to be to the death, and I'm assuming both combatants know this going in to the fight, I imagine that adrenaline, etc would compensate largely for the fear factor.

I also am beginning to think that experience plays a huge role here... I mean two people who've never been in any sort of fight before, probably advantage bat. As the skill of the two increases I think the advantage shifts further and further towards the knife.

With the correct strategy though (getting in close as quickly as possible) I think the knife is extremely difficult to beat in this situation though.

I first thought of marker, but then realized it only marks on the tip, whereas a knife is also edged. I still say paintbrush.

It is definitely true that for the very inexperienced fighter the bat will probably be the much better weapon, since one good strike is more likely to be sufficient. I still think that for experienced fighters, the bat holds some advantage, although it is much closer at that point.

Oh, I'm not saying it's easy, especially for someone who doesn't train in quick closes. But for life and death stakes, people are gonna be giving it 100%, and moving just as fast as they can, too. A bat is inherently slow and telegraphic. Even if you handle it reasonably well, the nature of the weapon doesn't change. And we are talking about equals, so if you are especially good at swinging a bat, we should assume that a knife guy is especially good at closing a couple of yards.

I think that between two completely untrained guys, a bat's chances leap up. Some guys will probably think backing up is better than charging in -- hey, it at least gets you away from the pain. But it also takes away any chance to do some cutting or stabbing. If you scare a guy with a knife so he doesn't charge in, sooner or later you're pretty likely to land something on him from a safe distance.

But people with a little more experience will know that they can't let you keep the range advantage forever, or sooner or later that bat is going to land.

Oh, I am definitely not sticking around if I see a weapon.