*****It's Not The Heat, It's The July LC Thread*****

[jmakinmecrzy]

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

Not everywhere.

In some places to be charged with theft you must physically take an item.

Some areas have Theft Of Services legislation.

Even then, depending on the wording of the law, this may or may not be a "service"

This is insane to me. So there are places where I can walk in, get a haircut, refuse to pay for it, and walk out without being charged for a crime?

[EvilSteve]

Well what did you steal? If anything you'd be walking out with less (hair) than what you came in with. They should be paying you.

[gumpzilla]

I'm pretty flabbergasted by the notion of Subway ever having good tomatoes. Think I'm probably about 0 for 146 on that front, but maybe it's just my taste in tomatoes. I've pretty much given up on anything larger than camparis having flavor I like, in terms of grocery store tomatoes.

[econophile]

apparently megan fox's pregnancy is old news, but i just saw this pic today

[DblBarrelJ]

Originally Posted by jmakinmecrzy

This is insane to me. So there are places where I can walk in, get a haircut, refuse to pay for it, and walk out without being charged for a crime?

That's what I'm getting at.

Typically theft of services would require a victim, in this case the person who cut your hair.

The only analogous situation I can think of would be going into a video arcade and somehow tricking the games into playing free without damaging them, which seems as though it should be illegal, but I don't know on what grounds.

[metaname2]

Originally Posted by gumpzilla

I'm pretty flabbergasted by the notion of Subway ever having good tomatoes. Think I'm probably about 0 for 146 on that front, but maybe it's just my taste in tomatoes. I've pretty much given up on anything larger than camparis having flavor I like, in terms of grocery store tomatoes.

I'm still flabbergasted that anyone ever thought that creating a chain of restaurants themed after the New York Subway system would be in any way appetizing.

I remember once, on a summer rush hour years ago, seeing a guy on the A train selling caramel rolls, AA batteries and stray pieces of Kentucky Fried Chicken Original Recipe. I was unable to eat for four days.

[jmakinmecrzy]

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

That's what I'm getting at.

Typically theft of services would require a victim, in this case the person who cut your hair.

The only analogous situation I can think of would be going into a video arcade and somehow tricking the games into playing free without damaging them, which seems as though it should be illegal, but I don't know on what grounds.

wouldn't be the victim be the person who owns the machine? I'm assuming when you use a washing machine you're entering a contract of sorts, ie i pay the 50c or whatever and i get my clothes washed, end of story. if for some reason my clothes were not washed, or I did not fully pay 50 cents, the contract is being broken. hm, maybe it isn't a crime. seems like it should be.

[LKJ]

Putting wear and tear on someone else's machine when not paying for its use, and not having permission to use it without paying for it, certainly seems to meet the definition of theft.

Theft is usually taking something with the intent to permanently deprive the rightful owner of it, but theft can also be committed regardless of your intentions as to the long-term ownership of the item if you take that item and cause it to depreciate in value before returning it. Taking control of a laundry machine or arcade game for a period of time without paying for it has a two-fold effect of reducing that machine's value (even if by a very nominal amount) and also costing the owner the ability for that machine to be making money for him in that moment since nobody else can pay for the use of the laundry machine while it's taking care of your clothes.

[jmakinmecrzy]

Originally Posted by LKJ

Putting wear and tear on someone else's machine when not paying for its use, and not having permission to use it without paying for it, certainly seems to meet the definition of theft.

Theft is usually taking something with the intent to permanently deprive the rightful owner of it, but theft can also be committed regardless of your intentions as to the long-term ownership of the item if you take that item and cause it to depreciate in value before returning it. Taking control of a laundry machine or arcade game for a period of time without paying for it has a two-fold effect of reducing that machine's value (even if by a very nominal amount) and also costing the owner the ability for that machine to be making money for him in that moment since nobody else can pay for the use of the laundry machine while it's taking care of your clothes.

I don't think anyone's arguing against any of this, I think it's more of a discussion of a civil complaint vs. a criminal one.

[LKJ]

Well theft is a criminal act and not a civil one. Civil actions would be brought under conversion or lesser offenses like trespass to chattels.

What I wrote above is why I'm pretty much certain that appropriating a machine that asks for pay without paying for it is a crime by common law. I guess I'd have to see what jurisdictions fail to make it a law under their criminal codes.

[offTopic]

Originally Posted by jmakinmecrzy

wouldn't be the victim be the person who owns the machine? I'm assuming when you use a washing machine you're entering a contract of sorts, ie i pay the 50c or whatever and i get my clothes washed, end of story. if for some reason my clothes were not washed, or I did not fully pay 50 cents, the contract is being broken. hm, maybe it isn't a crime. seems like it should be.

[lonely_but_rich]

If there's no risk of doing hard time I'll probably just start paying for it.

[I_AM_EVIL]

I stopped getting tomatoes at Subway b/c they're never ripe and ruin a sub.

[LKJ]

Yeah, I mean good tomatoes >>>>>>>>>> no tomatoes >> bad tomatoes.

When I see bad ones get put on, I always sigh because all the person really just did was add something that I have to pick off once I get home or to my desk or wherever.

[DblBarrelJ]

Originally Posted by jmakinmecrzy

I don't think anyone's arguing against any of this, I think it's more of a discussion of a civil complaint vs. a criminal one.

Yea, I'm not arguing that ethically its not stealing (I think it is) I'm saying criminally I don't think it's Theft.