'I talked/didn't talk to the cops.' Your story. - Page 32 - Other Topics Forum - Discuss Pop Culture, Arts and Entertainment

Poker Reference · 04-10-2012, 07:28 AM

I read it all; it's a good post.

dkgojacket's earlier question about how many innocent people are currently serving time in prison on account of having talked to the cops is a good one -- Pheonix you refused to give an estimate, but I think you should since the discussion revolves around perceived vs. real risks of so doing.

phoenixs1 · 04-10-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poker Reference

I read it all; it's a good post.

dkgojacket's earlier question about how many innocent people are currently serving time in prison on account of having talked to the cops is a good one -- Pheonix you refused to give an estimate, but I think you should since the discussion revolves around perceived vs. real risks of so doing.

Poker, I stopped reading after he saw fit to insult all Australians. Not going to waste my time reading that sort of drivel.

As for your stats, do your own research....I've told you my views, you've heard the views of other experts (assuming you watched the video), but am not going to sit here and answer every ridiculous question posed to me. You think it's a good idea to talk to a lawyer when you're suspected of a crime, good luck with it.

Perhaps another experienced criminal defence lawyer will come along and answer some of these nutty questions, from idiots who think they should not follow that basic advice. I'm sure there's a few here, but I doubt they'll be as silly as me and spend much time answering ridiculous questions from people who think it's all a big conspiracy when lawyers give that advice....argh...what a load of rubbish.

Henry17 · 04-10-2012, 07:50 AM

phoenixs1,

Your refusal to answer what is a very relevant question is very telling. I stopped believing you were a lawyer early on but even as a non-lawyer I'm curious as to what percentage of completely innocent people do you think are in jail?

You already established that you are a nutcase when you claimed that prosecutors routinely suppress exculpatory DNA so you have nothing further to lose by answering and at least giving us an idea of what your delusional paranoia is based on.

IUmike · 04-10-2012, 08:04 AM

Just to give the "Don't talk" crowd a little more ammo..
For Feds, "Lying" Is a Handy Charge.

Basically, when feds can't muster up enough evidence for a conviction on actual criminal activity, they can try to prove you lied to them about some small fact in the case, and prosecute you for that.

phoenixs1 · 04-10-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry17

phoenixs1,

Your refusal to answer what is a very relevant question is very telling. I stopped believing you were a lawyer early on but even as a non-lawyer I'm curious as to what percentage of completely innocent people do you think are in jail?

You already established that you are a nutcase when you claimed that prosecutors routinely suppress exculpatory DNA so you have nothing further to lose by answering and at least giving us an idea of what your delusional paranoia is based on.

As I said, do your own research....actual numbers of innocent people in jail, any simple minded person would know, are impossible to ascertain.

You are an idiot liar. I never said they routinely suppress exculpatory DNA, I gave the example of the lacrosse players case where they did do that, and in fact the prosecutor was jailed for doing so.

I do have lots to lose...I'm wasting time with idiots like you. You want any more of my time, you'll have to pay for it. It's one thing to engage in banter with people I enjoy bantering with, that's something I don't mind doing in my free time. Dealing with idiots like you, I refuse to do unless I'm paid for it. Maybe you'll find another lawyer stupid enough to waste their free time on people like you. Mine is valuable, and I refuse to waste it on people like you.

Josem · 04-10-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixs1

Poker, I stopped reading after he saw fit to insult all Australians. Not going to waste my time reading that sort of drivel. ..

I'm Australian, and originally agreed with your point of view in this thread. Having read the inane assertions that you keep making, your poor logic, your repeated calls to authority, I now disagree with you. Also, you reflect poorly on Australians and you deserve every insult that you have received here.

**dkgojackets** · 04-10-2012, 08:23 AM

you are the worst lawyer Ive ever heard of, youve been shown to be a crock and are now taking your ball and going home

the basis of your claim is that "jails are filled" with innocent people who are there just because they talked to police, yet you refuse to give an estimate as to the actual size of that group. the rest of your claim is "Im right because I said so and Im an attorney, also a judge once said something similar" with a couple anecdotes thrown in for good measure.

Holliday · 04-10-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

The second officer asked me my name, where I was going, where I was coming from and whether I knew the other passenger. I told him my name, that I was going home, that I was coming from campus, and that I didn't know the other passenger but that I thought he was also a student at the same University and that I'd seen him on campus boarding the previous bus that had taken us to this mall. He then asked me to put my brief case on the trunk lid, open it and step away from it, which I did. He looked inside, and asked me what was in the briefcase. I told him that it was mostly files from my job with the student government, plus some course-related material. He stepped back and asked me to take out the files and notes and place them on the trunk of his car and then to step back, which I did. He asked me if there was anything else in the bag. I said no. He looked in the bag, looked at some of the files and then told me I could pack up my things and that I was free to go. I asked him what it was all about and he told me that there had been an armed robbery down the street just a few minutes ago and that I and the other passenger matched the description of the suspects. As he was saying this, the bus that our bus had been waiting for rolled in, and then left without dropping any passengers. I got on my bus and went home.

According to the "don't talk to police" crowd, I made a number of serious errors here. I don't think I did. What would have happened if I had failed to answer any questions and refused to show what was in my briefcase? Probably I would have been cuffed, put in the back sea of the cruiser, and then either had to wait for backup to arrive and be searched without my consent, or taken immediately to the police station. Being a starving student, I would have had to sit around and wait for some public defender. Then I'd probably get questioned about where I had hidden the loot, and how I could prove I had left campus when I said I did (if my lawyer would even let me say I had been on campus, and taken a bus directly from there). I might have been charged. If involuntarily searched at the mall and released, I would have had to walk home overnight 8km on unlit, skunk-infested rural roads. If taken to the station, I probably wouldn't have gotten home until the morning at the earliest.

Not only was cooperating better for me, it was also better for the rest of society. The police were able to eliminate us as suspects in the matter of only a few minutes, and then continue to hunt for the real perpetrators, rather than tie up extra resources dealing with an uncooperative suspect.

Alright, first of all I'm offended at letting them search your bag. It's easy consents like that make it a pita for the rest of us. You fit the description? What was the description? Or did you just not give a **** now being in the clear?

Second, Jesus ****ing Christ, nobody is saying there's never a payoff for talking and cooperating. There clearly usually is--it's the small percentage of the time when you get screwed by talking and cooperating that's the problem.

Group A: Don't talk to the police because there's a small chance you find yourself enormously ****ed.

Group B: Aha! You are saying I shouldn't talk to the police because every single time I do that I'll be enormously ****ed!

**dkgojackets** · 04-10-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holliday

Alright, first of all I'm offended at letting them search your bag. It's easy consents like that make it a pita for the rest of us. You fit the description? What was the description? Or did you just not give a **** now being in the clear?

so its his job to inconvenience himself and go through a much longer process than necessary just to make you feel good?

option A: sure. they search, find nothing, you leave.

option B: **** YOU YOU AINT LOOKIN THRU MY STUFF. you go down to the station, call an attorney, and feel awesome about wasting hours but "winning"

DblBarrelJ · 04-10-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgojackets

so its his job to inconvenience himself and go through a much longer process than necessary just to make you feel good?

option A: sure. they search, find nothing, you leave.

option B: **** YOU YOU AINT LOOKIN THRU MY STUFF. you go down to the station, call an attorney, and feel awesome about wasting hours but "winning"

THIS!

When I'm dealing with a cop, my decision of whether or not to cooperate with whatever they're asking me is based solely on my personal benefit, considering my likelyhood of getting railroaded, the amount of time cooperating will save me etc, not based on some idea of solidarity and being a PITA to gain some "victory".

bbones31 · 04-10-2012, 09:20 AM

Dkgo winning this thread...

In the example of a kidnapping in your neighborhood and those that say don't talk to cops and say "I saw a suspicious van in the area" because MAYBE no one else saw it and now you would become a suspect...wtf?

What if you were the only who saw it and that's e best chance to get the kid back? If you want to err on the side of caution and not be falsely accused in the .1%(or whatever % since clearly no one knows) of the time it happens, go right ahead, you do have that right, but I'm damn sure if that's what I saw I'm telling the police, I'll take the chances of helping getting the kid back over being falsely accused any day.

Case Closed · 04-10-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry17

phoenixs1,

Your refusal to answer what is a very relevant question is very telling. I stopped believing you were a lawyer early on but even as a non-lawyer I'm curious as to what percentage of completely innocent people do you think are in jail?

You already established that you are a nutcase when you claimed that prosecutors routinely suppress exculpatory DNA so you have nothing further to lose by answering and at least giving us an idea of what your delusional paranoia is based on.

Oh henry. What a wonderful world you must live in.

Henry17 · 04-10-2012, 09:31 AM

DoTheMath story reminded me of another interaction where again I cooperated with the police and again it saved me a lot of time and energy.

I had gone to pick-up McD's breakfast. While in line some guy comes in who I would discover was from the store next door. He accused me of stealing money from his store. I explained he had the wrong person as I was not in his store. He left. Since this was downtown it didn't take long for him to find a cop who came in and asked to speak to me. He asked if I had been in his store. I said no. He then asked me if I had a roll on me and there was some misunderstanding but eventually I understood he was asking if I had a roll of quarters. I pulled out the contents of my pockets to show paper money and a cell phone and invited him to search me which he declined. He then asked the cashier how I paid and she said with a twenty dollar bill. He apologized for wasting my time and went away. Cooperating here inconvenienced me for less than five minutes and never exposed me to no risk of ever being charged with anything. Not cooperating would have led to several hours of inconvenience.

I remembered some additional interactions yesterday so in total I am now up to nine non-traffic police interactions where I cooperated and in all of them it was the correct decision.

Henry17 · 04-10-2012, 09:32 AM

Case Closed,

So you believe that prosecutors routinely suppress exculpatory DNA?

**dkgojackets** · 04-10-2012, 09:33 AM

One of the highlights of this thread is that somehow the side which claims jails are being filled up with innocent people and you must hire a lawyer before responding to questions about something you had no involvement in because they might railroad you into a suspect has declared that I am the conspiracy tinfoil hat nutjob for thinking that a defense attorney would be a bit biased when telling you how important defense attorneys are.