Well I checked the wikipage for the book The Prestige and it seems that the clone machine does exactly what its supposed to do, make a clone.

I understand this is the book but the movie seems to follow the book pretty closely, either way here is more saying that the machine does create a second Angier:

Wiki link for the book.

QF Gumpzilla.

Seriously, man...if what you're saying is true the only solutions is that Angier found ANOTHER double for the trick. It's definitely not the actor Root in the box drowning or on the slab at the morgue. Nolan makes a very clear distinction between Angier and Root throughout the entire film with the ear lobes. This can't be an accident. Either we are seeing a dead clone at the end or Angier just found another guy who looked even MORE like him, which would be just mega lame.

Also, if you're looking closely it looks like the other boxes have floating masses in the them. Also, why the **** would Angier give Borden that whole line about what he had to go through telling him to look around (he then nods to his LEFT towards some of the tanks) if the other tanks were empty and only one (on his RIGHT) contained a dead body? Angier can't lie to Borden about the machine working when Borden has the evidence (water tanks) right in front of him!

If what you're saying is correct, then why the **** was Borden impressed with this new routine when he instantly recognized the Angier-double that last time Angier did the transported man trick? Are you trying to say the key to the film is that Angier had a twin brother as well?

Are you then saying that Angier was the better magician in the end because he was doing the same exact long term "trick" that the Borden twins were doing but he did an even better job of keeping his twin a secret to everyone all the way to his death?

I guess it's fun to think the entire ending is yet another trick but nothing adds up to this.

When a magician saws someone in half we're in awe and wonder how it's done. When Borden does his transported man we're genuinely curious how he does it, and the end of the movie reveals it. There's nothing about the cloning machine that inspires the same awe as these other tricks. It's just a machine that a super-mind, outcast Tesla builds that clones the individual standing in the current. For the machine to be fake is not a trick. It just runs counter to everything that was presented in the movie. It's like if I were to contend that Cutter was schizophrenic and all of the characters in the movie (Borden twins, Angier, his assistant, the birds) are his multiple personalities playing out... there's nothing intruiging/magic about it, it's just a stupid trick fact that's not supported by anything that happens in the movie. "But the end has Cutter talking about you not wanting to see it, etc." ... yes, he's talking about Borden twins and he's doing that for dramatic effect so that the first time the viewer sees the movie they can take it all in and get that tingling feeling. It brings the viewer full circle as we realize that the beginning (with the Cutter voiceover) had particular relevance. It would have been less complete if Borden shoots Angiers, he dies, and credits roll.

Side note on "The Illusionist":

WTF was up with the end where Giamatti gets Norton's book that "reveals" all those cool tricks. Like the flower blooming out of the pot, it was just a drawing of a flower with a bunch of gears inside. Worst reveal ever.

Brandt: your argument is worthless without pics.

vetiver: I suppose that is a possibility for what Cutter might be referring to. As far as the cloning machine not inspiring awe, you're begging the question by assuming the machine already exists. The trick is still the Transported Man; the cloning machine is Angier's bull**** line to hide how he's doing it from Borden. If people seriously don't think that "oh, okay, in this world a cloning machine exists" is a total ****ing copout, then obviously there is no reason to listen to what I'm saying ("LOLZ, that retard doesn't realize they showed the cloning machine in the movie!!!!1!") I will only say that in my opinion, the only thing that redeems the movie is that it is very obviously set up to make you at least consider that my theory is possible.

(EDIT: Genuine non-physical magic in a movie is cool, provided it is reasonably consistent with the world the movie portrays. The cloning machine is a total out of left field cheat in this movie; anybody who disagrees with that is somebody I cannot productively discuss this movie with, and whose taste I will question.)

gump - its a movie. Asking the audience to suspend disbelief and assume that the cloning machine is "real" and "works" is fair game.

IRL Tesla built a lot of cool **** that most people don't know about.

This is equivalent to watching a heist movie, where people meticulously plan how they're going to steal something, and then when it seems like they're stuck and have no way of escaping, it turns out that the thief was actually Superman and can just fly away. (EDIT: I mean, I'd make that movie, but only if I wanted to give a big fat **** you to the audience. BET YOU BITCHES DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE COMING.)

That example is not comparable to what happened in the Prestige. They didn't just pull the clone idea out of the air, they spent like half the movie building it up. Of course you could (and did) also say that the build-up and explanation is part of the whole process of tricking the audience.

The view that the cloning machine is fake is interesting but you can't say that having it be real is a cop-out imo.

I don't care...go watch the movie and you will see. I watched all the parts with Root in them last night. What I'm saying is for real.

You're wrong about this film. Sorry.

I couldn't find one of the ending shot with Angier's clone in the tank but at least this shows the difference in ear lobes between the two characters.

Angier:



Root:



EDIT: ...and trust me, regardless of how convinced you are by these two pictures it's VERY clear in the movie that Root's ears are different. I can imagine by reading what I said earlier you're probably thinking the ears are maybe slightly different in like one scene or something but no...this is the one feature that completely distinguishes Angier from Root. It's consistent throughout the entire movie.

Perhaps what Caine is also referring to about "looking for the secret" at the end is this small detail which lets the audience know for certain that is not Root dead in the box.

some thoughts i had while skimming through the movie again.

The first time you see them together on stage doin the water tank trick there are boxes on either side of the stage with what looks like dolls in them. It struck me as odd because theres nothing else on stage beside the tank. Now if we are to believe that Jackman is trying to trick Bale in the final scenes of the movie then what we see in those tanks would indeed be dolls or mannequins or whatever. Remember we are talking about a magician here. It wouldnt be that hard for Jackman to create the illusion that all these tanks are filled with his clones. It may be nothing but if there are clues in the movie it would be little things like this.

When he tells Bale the machine worked Bale doesnt look at all surprised, dont you think this is weird? Bale knows the machine doesnt work because he sent Jackman on a wild goose chase to get it. Bale knows how Jackman did it because he has always been able to spot how the trick is done. What strikes me about the final scene is that Jackman is trying to convince Bale of the brilliance of his trick but Bale just seems to see straight through it.

Jackman tells Bale to look around him and Bale says "im lookin" like he pitys Jackman. Bale also says(roughly) "you went half way around the world, you did terrible things and all for nothing". this just makes more sense if we believe the machine doesnt work, ie he went halfway around the world for nothing, and Jackman instead killed his body double that night and sent Bale to prison.

Jackman says "the audience knows the truth, the world is simple, miserable, solid all the way through". Not only is this a direct nod to the viewer. Its also definitely not the words of someone who has discovered real magic and the ability to clone things.

So you are suggesting Jackman found yet another body double who looks even more like him? Because it is clearly NOT the body double actor from earlier in the movie named Root.

PS - In the book the machine works...why is it so hard to believe the machine works in the movie?

Why does Borden bother to go backstage and see up close who falls through the trap door if he knows it's just the old double again? He's intrigued this time because it really does appear to be the same man, not the double from earlier in the movie. Notice that the old double trick involved the body double not speaking during the prestige? They made a point that Angier could never be the prestige part of the trick because Angier needs to give the introduction, which Root could never do. In the new trick Angier speaks before and after the trick (it's the same guy, ldo).

The scene after the first time Borden sees the trick he is really frustrated and bitching about the trick because he can't figure it out...talking to his brother "50 yards in a SECOND...and all we know is he's using a trap door...what is going on under that stage? Why can't you out think him?" Yeah, seems like he knows for sure it's a simple double routine. lol? A couple scenes later Borden even says "Let him have his trick...I don't know his secret. So, don't go back there, leave him alone. We're done."


He's saying that to try and replicate Borden's trick Angier had to resort to traveling around the world, paying money out the ass for a crazy invention and he was forced to murder his own clone over and over again ("terrible things, many terrible things") all to merely match Borden's simple, obvious and yet difficult to maintain trick. This whole conversation makes much less sense to me if all the trouble he went to was just making mannequins, putting them in the boxes and storing them away...then on the last night using an apparent new perfect live double to fall in the box and drown. How does this make any sense? We know for certain it's not Root who drowned in the box. So who is it?

In the end, why would Angier bother keeping this warehouse full of mannequin-filled water tanks? As far as Angier knew Borden was hanged dead. He had no idea Borden had a twin who was going to show up at that warehouse. Those tanks weren't there to impress or convince Borden at the end. He did not expect anyone to show up at the warehouse. This also makes it pretty clear that the emotional speech Angier gives Borden about sacrifice was NOT rehearsed...why would Angier rehearse such a speech since the guy he would be rehearsing it for was dead?


How does the same exact man disappear on stage and instantly reappear on the other side of the theatre? Either he teleporting for real or there are somehow two of this exact same man. This is the truth, however we don't want to believe it because it's unpossible.

Angier tells the audience what they are about to see is not magic and that it is science. Of course they aren't going to just believe that. Deep down they want to believe there is a simple trick to it all, otherwise there is something actually quite scary at work here. "You want to be fooled."

Most of these points don't even need to be addressed once you realize that Nolan went out of his way to make a distinction between Root and Angier with the ear lobes. I'm pretty sure if Nolan wanted us to think it was Root that was dead in the morgue he would have the same ears he had the entire movie. This is of course not even considering the simple fact that in the book the machine works.

[X] I will be vindicated by the time this thread ends

Yeah, ship it.

One other thing I just realized I didn't make clear earlier was that the body we see clearly floating in the case at the end is not even the same body we saw drowning during the trick (and that Borden saw drown). This is because the Angier that we see drowning was busted out of the case and eventually taken to the morgue, where Cutter came to identify him.

So this floating body we see at the end is either A) yet ANOTHER perfect look-a-like actor B) an unbelievable realistic ultra-real-doll type mannequin which has no precedent throughout the story (that Angier is storing away in a warehouse for no apparent reason?) or C) one of many dead clones.