a lot of dealers like to pretend its still 1985 or something and will respond with the above bs. Full MSRP quotes or cant talk pricing unless you come in etc etc.

Other dealers have caught on that the internet is an easy way to move inventory and will be much more reasonable in their replies to you. Keep emailing other dealers until you get a couple who are willing to play ball.

Unless you are buying some rare variant or you are in some remote area this method is really easy and has completely solved car buying.

The dealers have zero leverage and their cost information is out there for anyone who wants it. I usually get the invoice pricing from Consumer Reports which includes hold back, incentives etc, figure out what id be willing to pay and then start emailing away.

If you work for a company that offers employee discount on cars, should you negotiate first with the dealer and then reveal the employee discount part? Would they even agree to the employee discount once the price has been negotiated down?

Like any discount/rebate/incentive, thats money that already belongs to you and doesnt cost the dealer anything. I would think that you totally negotiate on the up front price of the car first, and then start applying all of your discounts you got as secondary items.

Great advice guys. I'm looking for a used car myself. Here's a question for you guys. I see a price listed at 9.5k, how far down would the dealer go to sell me the car? Do you think I can get it down to 8k?

We are missing a lot of information here to say what you could get the car for. What type of car, mileage, year, condition, etc. With used cars it also depends on what the dealer acquired the car for and what type of work they had to put in to make it sellable.

Ok that might be but I guess I'm presuming a no haggle dealership would be somewhere between a great price and overpriced like a haggle dealership. Maybe Carmax isn't a good example.

What kind of car? New or used? Aren't some new cars like Honda very much no haggle?

So just e-mail more dealerships. Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. It's tons easier than hoofing it.

You can also respond to the ones that sent you crap prices and let them know it was crap.

You think you have this thing solved, but you don't.

Oh no I definitely dont think I have this solved. I'm here to learn.

So I got fed up with these non-counters and decided to just start phoning a few dealers and lie my ass off. I also made my starting offer a little more reasonable. For a car listed at $36,348 I told them the dealer downtown just offered me $34,348 and asked quite bluntly if they could beat that. I didnt waste any time chit chatting, just called up and presented it just like that. They called me back and offered me $34,000. I'm gonna see if they'll go to 33.5.

This is impossible to answer because there is no way to verify what the dealer pay for the car. With a new car you know but with a used car you don't. Also how long has the car been on the lot? Usually if its been over 2 months they will be more aggressive. Some dealerships don't negotiate at all someone to go she ate only a little

Buyers are liars and when ppl lie to me I generally feel like screw that guy

I sell Honda and right now there are some killer incentives

Why in the world would you ever offer a number first?

Anyway, do a TrueCar analysis, take the three lowest "guaranteed prices" you get, then have them all make an offer based on that analysis for something on their lot, eliminate all but the low two dealers, negotiate extras, buy the better deal.

One hour on the internet, one in the dealer. Done.

Because I know they're going to offer me a ******edly high figure first, like full ****ing MSRP and then act like there's only $200 markup in the car.

I'm under the impression that there is a lot less wiggle room with the popular electric cars. So you may have a tough time getting a stellar deal on a volt

After like 3 seconds of looking at true car. Invoice is like 34300 msrp is 34999. Avg purchase price is 32999

I got so ****ed on this. I had my strategy, thought I negotiated a pretty good price.

Then they take me off in another room with a guy who I just thought was there to fill out my paperwork. Now I'm to paying $500 just to turn on the freaking alarm system, and another $700 in gap insurance. I started to resist the gap insurance and he hit me with "What are times a little tight?". Hell no I'm not poor. **** you I can afford gap insurance.

I'm an idiot.

I just wasn't prepared for a second round of negotiations. I suck at negotiations - it drains the life out of me. So when I got through the first-round and was so proud of myself – I had no negotiating stamina left. The paperwork guy just completely blindsided me.

This. If the factory interest is higher than what you can get yourself, you can usually buy out of it 4-6 months later. That's handy if there's a rebate for dealer financing.

your goal when negotiating with a car dealer should be to make them hang themselves in their office since they are so frustrated dealing with you

Gap insurance guy in the other room gets a lot of people. They got me on my first new car too.

It definitely doesn't hurt to be confrontational and stress them out a bit. I don't mean raging obnoxious, but I do mean come in borderline unreasonable. Things go better when the salesman's frustrated and the manager is trying to talk you up to a sane price (rather than you bargaining them down). This isn't how I like to conduct negotiations, certainly not professionally, but dealerships are a special animal. Dealership people tend to act more aggro than they typically are because they're trained that way. Many don't enjoy dealing with difficult/confrontational people themselves.

More than that you need to walk off a few dealerships. It's standard advice to shop around but a lot of people don't take that seriously enough. After ~3 you have a good idea of what their best offers look like. I start at the dealerships furthest from me and save the closest two for last. Back and forth once or twice and it's done. In fact last time I just called the Online Sales managers from the last two and threw a number at them and asked if they could do it..."we need you to come in." "No, I'm looking to buy a car today and don't feel like wasting another two hours and a another drive - can you do $X OTD today on Y car? I'll be using dealer financing for the rebate and will qualify, no trade in."

The stress lessens as you go. The first few places you exist to piss people off. All you want is the best offer you can get as you're walking off the floor. By the end you've got a lock on the price you should pay or close enough.

Where I could do better is spending some time to figure out what some of the fees are, as in which are legit and which aren't. But this is somewhat marginalized when you go for an OTD price. If one dealership charges a $280 advertising fee and the next charges $400, the latter needs to make that up somewhere to stay in it.

Caveat: I live in a big metro area and there are no shortage of new car dealerships of all makes within 2 hours' drive. YMMV if you live in Montana or something.

Yeah, the same thing happened to my wife about a month ago. I was out of town so she was on her own. She did a fantastic job doing her research and finding a good vehicle at the right price. In fact she was able to negotiate the price down much lower than I thought she could get it to. But after a solid week of looking she was absolutely exhausted by the whole process. So when the dealer added in a scummy $300 VIN etching charge (they scratch the VIN#s on your windows with a $40 machine), she was too exhausted to fight it. She knew better, but by that point she just wanted to get the car and move on with her life. It still eats me up inside. It stings when you get effed over like that.

The thing is, pretty much everyone falls for something like this at one point or another. IMO you're only an idiot if you fall for it the the next time.

Never buy anything from the "finance" guy.

What the heck is "gap insurance". I havent bought a brand new car in quite awhile (prefer someone else pay the 1st two years depreciation).

I did walk out with a maintenance plan that was incredibly inconvenient for me (where dealer was vs my office). Was able to cancel it for a fairly small bath.

Backroom finance/rustproofing/etc guy or gal are evil.

Basically gap is an insurance to cover the difference between what you owe and what the insurance says your car is worth in the event if a total loss. For example let's say you total your car right after you buy it and your loan balance is 10k but the insurance adjuster says your car is worth 8k and that's all we can pay, then the gap insurance kicks in to cover the difference. A lot of finance companies require this on new or newer cars to protect themselves

If you total your car and you owe more on it than it's worth, gap insurance will pay the difference.