This is what I keep coming back to - is it obvious that Rey was never involved in Jedi training? Isn't it possible that she was trained (maybe by Luke), and doesn't remember?

Unrelated point: Now that I know "Darth" is like a title, rather than a name, it really bothers me that Obi-Wan calls him "Darth" rather than "Vader" in ANH.

Luke, under obiwan's guidance, is able to block 3 blaster shots from a training droid. How this is different from whatsherface:

master jedi guiding Luke
blaster
training droid

vs

no master jedi guidance
lightsaber
real person who uses the force and is supposed to be very very very good at it

They're really not that comparable at all.



Re vader vs Luke in ESB: Vader is toying with Luke and at the same time showing him the power of the dark side. That fight would be over anytime Vader wanted.

How is Kyle supposed to be very very good at force using? He's an immature apprentice. He can't even construct a proper lightsaber. He hasn't completed his training. And he's gravely wounded. Again, it's just not at all unrealistic that a wounded apprentice could lose to a gifted and healthy novice. Especially when Kyle isn't even trying to kill Rey! He wants to recruit her. Seems totally reasonable imo.

Are you saying I'll be able to dodge blaster shots?

I'm saying when you're done training you won't have to.



It's pretty well established since the first scene.

Luke was a spoiled farmboy. Rey speaks every language, has lived alone in a brutal existence for years as a child and is very skilled with a staff.

It's really all there in the movie. Her being a phenom isnt much of a stretch if you ask me. Plus movie was highly enjoyable. And I am a frothing at the mouth star wars lunatic

Why is it that only Star Wars fan seek to create a different version of their "universe" and reject the creator Lucas' version?

No other fans do this. Not Star Trek, Harry Potter, Tolkien, etc.

Where were all these realism nits when Luke instantly became an extremely proficient operator of a high-performance military spacecraft based on his experience shooting Beggar's Canyon wildlife from an atmospheric craft?

uh what? I'm saying the first three movies, which are by far the most popular (more people saw the first Star Wars in the theaters than the prequels combined), laid the groundwork for the Star Wars universe. This seems pretty straightforward and reasonable, how could you possibly take issue with this.

When the first movie was released there wasn't HBO or VHS/DVD to watch so everyone went to the theaters. The first movie was a cultural tidal wave. People saw the movie multiple times. There was about a 50% drop off between ANH and Empire in theatrical box office.

Did you even watch ANH?

Obi-Wan: "I hear you've become a good pilot yourself?"
Luke: "I'm not such a bad pilot"
Biggs: "Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer-rim territories"

So yeah, it's an established plot point that Luke is a good pilot.

Uh, right. Star Wars was a cultural phenomenon. Star Wars was the single most important and relevant movie to establish the Star Wars world, because it was the first movie, and the most viewed. But Empire and Jedi were each much more successful than any of the prequels. And certainly much more successful and relevant to "establishing the Star Wars world" than the prequels, let alone an obscure cartoon or some novels or whatever.

because in reality piloting one type of plane allow you to pilot any plane like a pro

Similarly, it was established that Rey was an excellent hand-to-hand fighter. Killing whomp rats with an atmospheric craft seems roughly as relevant to destroying the death star with a torpedo as sparring with a staff does to defeating a wounded apprentice dark jedi in a light saber duel...

And the subtext is that Luke was using the force to kill those whomp rats. Just like Rey was using the force to beat grown ass men in a hand to hand fight! They were both using the force without realizing it.

I agree that Luke being a top pilot is a bit far fetched. That doesn't make Rey's arc any more believable.

Storytelling has also changed quite a bit in the last 40 years anyways and I expect a movie made now to be a bit more plausible than ones from the 70s or 80s.

If you were to watch TFA without having ever seen anything else related to any type of Star Wars... Rey suddenly becoming a top tier everything is pretty lame.

Right, but it DOES make Rey's sudden power more consistent with the Star Wars world. Which is exactly the discussion we're having.

hypernerds: Rey's light saber/force using progression is NOT REALISTIC, it takes years of constant practice to be able to touch a light saber
normals: Actually, Luke seemed to pick it up right off the bat
hypernerds: IN STAR WARS LEGENDS 8 IT CLEARLY STATES...
normals: uhhhhhh
hypernerds:

She s not a top tier whatever, kylo ren isnt darth vader get over it.

And godfather lucas spelled it : the force is strong in this one, after that it s fair game that she is or luke was well above average.
Any special stuff is justified by the force guided her/him.

Luke alluded to the fact that has was a very good (T-16) pilot in ANH.

how the **** did anakin win that podrace?

oh yea...the force

Isn't there an argument that Rey is very well trained and her past memories have been wiped?


Anakin Luke and Rey are all obviously Force prodigies

Exactly. I mean, why doesn't Ned Stark just walk out of the shower in the opening episode of Season 8 of GoT? They have dragons and white walkers, right? so a guy coming back to life and growing a new head isn't that implausible....

Oh snap, I thought was some sickass Tattooinean sexual slang. Kind of embarrassed now TBH

I liked this thread a lot more when it was El D / SK / Nunnehi going ham and not whatever the last page is

Can we get more of that

Already explained how Luke's using a a lighsaber to deflect a few shots from a training droid while under a master jedi's supervision isn't the equivalent to combating a sith lord (surprised I needed to actually)

I'm saying that if you cut out all other star wars lore it's still just a weak "progression"

The argument, imo, is whether or not TFA told a good story. "It's realistic or not realistic because of episode x" is a sidebar.

Master of all languages
Top tier pilot
top tier force wielder
top tier duelist

What we know about Kylo: He was an apprentice under Luke, and is an apprentice under the current sith lord. He (by himself) killed every one of Luke's other apprentices earning him the title "Jedi Killer". This caused Luke to either run away or just abandon him.

So while he's not Darth Vader, as you say, he's kind of a big deal.


Kylo is also above average with the force... and trained to use it. Luke was way also way above average with the force.

Yeah, showing vs telling and all that. Luke's progression started in ANH continued in ESB and continues in ROTJ before he's beating the bad guy. One throw away line is not really enough.