I guess you can try, but there's probably a reason why all your fishing has been fruitless.

+1 to this--I was thinking about saying almost the exact same thing.

I know the below is more advanced than the RA positions, but having been a grad student and going through this process of looking for a permanent faculty job myself, what you're going through seems fairly similar. What happens is an ad gets made for a job. It lists (as Klavs and Wook have said) the very basics. They get tons of applications.

A quick scan is done of the received applications (sometimes by the person hiring, sometimes by HR, sometimes by who knows who) and the ones that don't meet the minimums are tossed. That happens more than you'd think--people with Masters degrees applying for Ph.D. required positions, people applying so out of their field it's ridiculous, and that sort of stuff. So once the chaff is removed, then the serious examination of the applications begins.

So, with your qualifications you might (or if you want to feel good about yourself, "probably", or maybe even "will") make it through that initial rough screening.

Now--and this seems to be what you're missing--you're competing with everyone else who went through that rough screening. Because you just scraped by that screening, you're at the bottom of the barrel. If you look at it from the person hiring, why would they take someone at the bottom, or just randomly pick, when they could have someone with a lot more experience and skills?

Yes, that's blunt. But you've gotten a lot of good advice on how to go about what it is you want to do (grad school, or maybe volunteer with an understanding that if it works out after several months you become paid, etc...). Unfortunately you seem to have just wanted pats on the back, to be told you're a special snowflake, and have rejected that wonderful and *expert* advice. And I see from an intermediate post, you're still trying to argue with people ITT and justify your qualifications. Please stop that, it's counterproductive. "But technically I have this experience for a month or two, which could apply to X" doesn't cut it when others don't have to lean on "technically". It's probably possible for you to do what you want, but you have to change your tactics to what has been written in this thread. Go back through and read what others have said and take it to heart. It's not going to be an instant fix, but it can be a fix.

BTW, I know in the science lab I worked in (not bio, full disclosure) we did have some people who had their BAs (but weren't grad students) working as RAs. However, they had been working in the lab as undergrads for at least a year or two.

As coffee_monster said, not quite the same, but my PI was the Biophysics chair for a while and headed many faculty search committees. Job requirements were pretty basic (Ph.D. in related field, post-doc preferred, skills in some certain field like crystallography, enzyme kinetics, blah blah). Hundreds of apps come in. Half aren't really qualified, those get chucked. Then the weaker ones are removed. And then, you'd still have ~100 apps with Science, Nature, or Cell papers (the big 3 in Bio). Bio faculty jobs are DAMN hard to get.

Little brag though: I gave a talk at a FASEB meeting as I was finishing up a project (which was pretty damn exciting for me). Dept Chair at Michigan really likes it, tells me to apply for faculty job. I was confused as hell, explained I was still in grad school, and he said, "Seriously, apply." One of the best compliments I ever got. Didn't apply though.

I want to end the piling-on...how about we tell this guy what to do instead of what not to do or what he can't do. Seriously just go for one of the most basic research lab based jobs you can get. You will get experience, make connections, maybe be able to move up to a better lab position and you can get some more references and contacts for your grad school application if that's the route you wish to go. Or, you will gain experience for a future tech job.

You can always try to get experience through a temp agency; my roommate has a chem degree and had a lower GPA than you and virtually no experience in anything; he got a job at a pharmaceutical company through a temp and they're considering hiring him full-time now. Just stop posting and keep applying and looking around, you'll find something. You'll just have to start at the bottom.

This is super institution- and search-dependent. But the point is analogous.

lol I got the same line from one of the eminent ecology faculty at Florida. I did not apply. That particular job ended up going to the guy who got a Nature Conservancy postdoc (THE most prestigious/competitive ecology postdoc in the US). double LOL.

This. OP MUST begin understanding how connections work, even (especially) in the small world that is biology.OP, with whom did you do your snail work? Since this sounds like your most viable avenue to pursue. I didn't see anyone doing snail stuff on DePaul's website, but she likely has connections in the area. Alternatively, you may need to think about becoming mobile to get some practical experience. Having done some field work might help you to leverage that experience into some seasonal position that combines field (collection) and lab (dna extraction, etc) work.

This sounds way more fun than running Southern blots all day imo.

This type of tech always pissed me off. We hated people coming in to the lab so that they could get a bit of experience before they go off to grad school. Frankly most aren't worth a damn for most of that year and we were actually worse off having to hold their hand and answers questions constantly.

However, what I am finding now is that there are more jobs out there for someone with a BSc and a decent amount of relevant experience (or clinical/tech degrees) than people with a PhD (excluding faculty positions).

I made the crazy decision to leave my position and move to a much smaller market 2 years ago and I am still looking for work...And I have over 15 years of lab experience. Frustrating as hell but I have to live with my choices.

For those starting out I would definitely suggest an MD PhD program even if you are planning on research almost exclusively.

I respect your opinion, but for me everyone in the lab should understand the theory behind the techniques they are using. Sure there are levels to that understanding but I do not need mindless robots. Kit culture of experimentation is bringing about a lack of understanding of what it is people are actually doing...Christ, I sound like such an angry old man!

Phage - I'm interested. What are you looking to get into? I'm also leaving research because I just hate it. Lol.

I really would like to get back to the bench. I've always enjoyed the work so an SRA type job would be perfect. Frankly I wouldn't even mind a senior tech type position where I would have some autonomy and a project of my own.

Realistically that sounds selfish and I can't expected a PI to indulge my desire to remain at the bench forever. My other options here are government work but the Canadian government is going through some upheavals and are cutting the public service and funding to scientific research.

At the moment I feel as though I am floundering while I try to find some sort of job...depressing after completing a PhD, being a postdoc and then having an enjoyable research job.

Klavs, what is it you want to do?

wow, this is pretty much the norm ime. PIs get a cheap tech, tech gets experience and a sense of whether they actually want to continue doing research. But I was in a much less bench-oriented field.


This is a separate discussion. I probably only partially agree.

Lots to discuss here to. Maybe you read more into the prior post than was meant?


Also, don't understand/maybeI'mmissingsomething. Aren't "research associates" by definition "postdocs?" You REALLY want to subject yourself to that indefinitely?

That would be cool mate. What do you do nowadays considering you're not on the bench?

I am not sure what I want to do yet. I want to work with people, I don't enjoy the solitude that comes with lab work. I am contemplating teaching, or possibly going into the health sector, as a genetic counselor or something.

Since I became unemployed I have a lot of time on my hands for the first time in probably 40 years. admittedly I am not using this time off wisely but I have started doing some volunteer work.

At this point I am thinking of going back to school. Seems crazy at this point but I really don't want to be pushed further out of the job market due to inertia and lack of desirable skills. I have been contemplating teaching but even that seems to require some formal training.

Depends where you are. You might just have to pass a basic knowledge test, depending on the state you live in.

Where I live in MA that is apparently the case (for teaching elementary/middle/high school)

But at the same time, I am amazed at the number of science Ph.Ds we have here in OOT.