Diablo, Peter, ET,

You guys are playing on such an elite cocktail level now, I can't even participate in my own thread.

I can't recall if it's been discussed in this thread (and it isn't exactly "bar" talk) but I'll throw it out anyway.

What are everyones thoughts on tipping on expensive bottles of wine?

My 2c is I'll do 20 percent up to a 100 dollar bottle (assuming other service was excellent). After that anything over 10 percent seems absurd (even 10 seems a bit high). It's a fixed service. It doesn't change and it doesn't get any better no matter how much you tip.

I work as a server and bartender in a fine dining restaurant. I was always a high tipper even before working in the industry. Most of my coworkers don't agree with me at all (or afraid to express it for fear or ridicule).

They say things like "It's just the way things are, people need to know this", "you're a disgrace to the industry", etc, etc. Ultimately though no one can give me a reasonable answer as to why this is simply "the way things are".

I think they are simply self-entilted bitches trying to drive an already tip heavy culture higher for their own gain.

Where does everyone fall on this?

Any shared drinks recipe is a good recipe, CQ

Plus you have bragging rights in perpetuity on birthing this beauty!


EDIT: Nomad, in the UK it's not quite 20%, 10-15 is still standard (I usually do 15%). That said, wine is part of the bill, and I have never dined with someone who'd pay a flat fee on a bottle as opposed to service at the appropriate level. Nor would I: if you can afford a good bottle of wine, you should still reward service as appropriate.

I usually cost in service when working it all out, and those who would pull the "it's the same job - pulling out a cork - regardless of cost" argument aren't the sort of people I'd want to spend my time with.

Having worked, albeit only for months, in a service industry I think people who try and dodge these costs are usually cheap enough to dodge being friends with. I understand why people would do it: I just don't want to spend my time with them.

I actually sort of agree with you. When I waited tables, if someone bought a $200 bottle of wine, and with food the check was $400, I didn't raise an eyebrow if the check was, say, ~$60 rather than $80. If it was $80, then great, but I definitely understand not tipping 20% on an expensive bottle of wine.

I personally would probably just tip 20%, but I am a compulsive tipper and don't expect everyone on earth to be

Peter,

I sort of agree with you in principal and I'm certainly never considered to be the nitty one in these settings. That said I just can't see how there isn't a ceiling tip limit for these sort of things.

20 dollars on a 100 bottle, 100 on a 500 bottle, 200 on a 1000 bottle all for the exact same service? We reciet the bottle they ordered. Uncork, present cork, pour taste if it passes muster we pour. Depending on the number of people drinking sometimes we go around and pour again as they get low. But that's it.

A bit a sidestep parralell is how we bill for bottles. The higher the bottle price, the less the markup. For example we sell cheaper bottles at 4-500 percent markup. A 7 dollar bottle to use gets sold for around 35.

However when the bottle price gets higher the markup gets less. A 68 dollar bottle gets sold for 130.

The tipping situation seems similar to me. There has got to be a line somewhere, no?

I've also never paid over 100 dollars for a bottle. Perhaps if I could afford to I'd pony up the 100 bucks for a 500 bottle but it still feels like bull**** to me. Something that the service industry drove forward up to gouge the consumer.

Nomad,

I don't think it's something that has been deliberately done to "gouge the customer" as you say--it's a natural byproduct of there being a basically set % that people tip. It's a gray area. And it is not at all an uncommon practice for people to deduct the wine from the check pre-tip and to tip a different % on the wine.

Eh you're right. That may have been a bit harsh. I don't think I'm all that off base though. So many of my coworkers feel so entitled to a certain tip that it boggles my mind.

nomad and others,

Can you please bump a tipping thread and ask/discuss that question instead of here? It's actually IMO a somewhat discussion worthy question (along with how much to tip on an $18 glass of wine or expensive shot of whiskey, etc), but it's just such a derail from this thread. Thanks!

Fair enough. Haven't seen any tipping threads lately but I'll poke around for one.

I'll redeem myself by putting it back on track.

One of my favorite whisky cocktails to make non-whisky drinkers is the Scofflaw.

http://www.imbibemagazine.com/The-Sc...ocktail-Recipe

For the non whisky drinkers though I start out 1-1-1-1 (exact amounts depending on the size of your serving glass).

For seasoned whisky drinkers though I go something more like:
2.25
.75
.5
.5

I should also note that quality grenadine is very very important to this drink. At worst Stirrings makes a decent over the counter product. I've yet to see another that comes close and is even remotely available. At best make your own.

I also tend to prefer higher proof ryes in cocktails. Rittenhouse is very good in this drink. Knob Creek is fantastic albeit almost twice the price in my area. If everyone wasn't aware Knob did in fact start making a rye back in August. It's well worth the ~38 a bottle and is fantastic in the any rye cocktail I've tried it with. Particularly a Sazerac.

Eh, i'm fine with this particular tipping question here; the thread is meant to encompass more than just drink recipes, and while tipping questions are usually worthless trollbait, this one's kind of interesting

Cq,

Fine, see my followup q's then!

On the same token I generally avoid particularly expensive drams while out.

I used to work at a speakeasy type establishment that had very labor intensive cocktails. For something like that 20 percent is more relevant I think.

If I just go out and decide to buy a 110 dollar shot of Louis I don't think 20 percent is at all relevant.

I don't really every buy wine by the glass but I don't see how the same theory wouldn't apply to them.

Diablo,

Idk, probably $3-5 on the glass of wine given a number of factors including but probably not limited to 1) how currently broke I am 2) how nice/cool/good the bartender is and 3) what kind of mood I'm in. Feel like I'd tip the same on an $18 glass of wine or shot of whiskey.

Re: vermouth I stick to the Carpano family. Their Punt e Mess and Antica are the best vermouth IMO. Been drinking a lot of Negronis lately w Antica. Also a variant w Aperol instead of Campari. Simple and so delicious.

KJS,

Punt e Mes and Antica are excellent. Pick up some Cocchi, though. That's like the triumvirate of awesome cocktail vermouth IMO.

A friend has passed me a bottle of the Czech herbal Becherovka - but this time Lime Becherovka. She said it tasted like flat cola, so the first drink I'm going to make for her is the Pepsi challenge: Cola vs Lime Becherovka and sparkling water.

Yes, that dull.

Now feeling massive vermouth inadequacies for this Saturday's Groundhog Day cocktail fest.

Ditto.

Although according to a friend PA just passed legislation yesterday that will abolish PA state stores and privatize the whole liquor systems. Here's to the demise of monopolies and better selection!

Had this root tea liquor last night. Pretty delicious. Going to try to get it for our place. Anyone else tried it? Going to be experimenting with some cocktails soon. Jump in with suggestions if you have any.

Kjs,

Did you get to try SNAP? That's my favorite of their stuff.

KJS,

I stumbled on it by accident but love the Art in the Age stuff. I came up with a cocktail in the fall for a pumpkin carving party that my wife threw. It was as follows:

2.5 Jim Beam Bourbon
1 good quality ginger beer
1 good quality apple cider
.5 Root
1 dash Angostura
1 dash Fee Brothers Old Fashioned bitters
Apple slice garnish

I'll leave it at "good quality" for the ginger beer and cider since both are very location dependent.

Proportions are easily altered depending on your own taste. I was going for mass appeal and not my personal preference.

In other Art of the Age related news I was just a great bar in Philly for the first time last night. It was called Tattooed Mom on South St.

They had the full AotA lineup and had a cocktail list that used it.

I had several an my favorite was what they called the 530 Martini. Evidently 530 is their address.

It was:

Art Sage
Art Rhubarb
Amaretto
Orange twist

I requested light on the Amaretto and didn't end up catching the exact proportions but it was fantastic. Complex and very flavorful. In the future I'd probably also ask for light Rhubarb but that's a nit pick.

No. My local state stores don't have any of their stuff yet.

CQ,

I've been serving for ~6 months and am now beginning to bartend. I plan on keeping at this for the foreseeable future (probably another year before I think about making a move). assuming this works out, and I see no reason why it won't, how valuable will this experience be if I later try and seek out a full-time bartending gig elsewhere (i.e. not in a restaurant)? the restaurant I currently work at is pretty nice, but casual. not fine dining.

Not QC but I hire bartenders. One year is better than no experience but it depends on your area if that is enough. Here in Portland jobs are pretty sparse and you can always find people with more experience. Elsewhere may be different. Apply yourself and it should be something you can parlay. Learn all the drinks and most importantly learn to be fast without being sloppy. As you stay in the game you will want to work busier and busier places to maximize income. That means speed.