Yeah, if anyone wants to do a NYC guide, that would be great. My recs early on were kind of lame, since 1) I haven't been in a couple of years and 2) I usually go to LES/Brooklyn dive bars that anyone can find for themselves.

Manhattan cocktail fans,

I've mentioned the Saratoga in this thread as a great alternative:
1 ounce rye whiskey
1 ounce cognac
1 ounce sweet vermouth
2 dashes Angostura bitters
http://www.cocktailchronicles.com/20...toga-cocktail/

Yesterday the bartender who introduced me to that drink made me another really good one, the Brooklyn:
1 1/2 oz Rye Whiskey
1/2 oz Dry Vermouth
1/4 oz Amer Picon or Torani Amer
1/4 oz Maraschino Liqueur
http://adrinkontherocks.com/whiskey-...klyn-cocktail/

It's a pretty good gin in general and an absolute steal for its price.

Just made a Saratoga except I shook mine instead of stirring, delicious.

Claunchy making strong moves at 2:14 in the afternoon.

Someone's been lurking SL!

All,

I don't mean to insult your hobby. I just don't get it, so it just seems like a waste of time to me. Lots of things are a waste of time, but they load onto some basic motivation that humans have. For example, I see a lot of role playing video games as a waste of time, but I can understand why people get hooked on them. Making fancy alcoholic drinks is less understandable. Obsessing over a meal I get, but I feel like alcoholic drinks really limit your options for creativity, and you could apply the same kinds of thought patterns (which flavors complement each other well) to some other venture. If anyone can explain what I'm missing that'd be cool.

A brain.

I think you're overstating how much effort it takes to make a "fancy" drink. Once you have the ingredients, making a drink typically takes just 2-3 minutes, as opposed to a meal which can take 20-40 minutes. Liquor tends to keep a long time, so once you have a well stocked bar, you really don't have to go running out to buy stuff very often.

So we can take 2-3 minutes to make something delicious, have fun experimenting with different flavors, and get buzzed or drunk. I don't see how that's confusing at all. Why force something down that's only tolerable when you can make it delicious instead?

Cowboys are playing in Foxborough this afternoon so I had to get mentally prepared for failure.

GCG,

I enjoy food and drink, and prefer tastier food and drink to less tasty food and drink. It's not really any more complicated than that.

All,

One of my favorite bars in SF (Dr. Teeth's and the Electric Mayhem) does all their cocktails without any sugar or simple syrup. Here are a couple of my favorites:

The Mayhem (rye, brandy, Fernet, Peychaud's/orange bitters)

Whiskey Breeze (rye, lemon, grapefruit and raspberry jam)

http://www.thrillist.com/bars/san-fr...reat-cocktails

They also make an awesome blackberry fizz, which I think is just gin + lemon juice + soda + a ton of muddled up blackberries. Delicious.

That got me thinking about cocktails with jam (a trend that is picking up at cocktail places here) and I found some good cocktail ideas here (I think someone from here, maybe citanul, may have sent me this):

http://goop.com/newsletter/121/en/

I'm gonna make this one, except w/ more jam in place of simple syrup:

Madam Geneva's Jam Cocktail
For one cocktail:

2 oz 42 Below Vodka or Beefeater Gin
1 oz lemon juice
1 oz simple syrup
Crushed ice
Spoonful of jam
In a shaker, add jam, vodka or gin, lemon juice, simple syrup and several ice cubes. Shake briskly, and strain into a rocks glass half-filled with crushed ice. Float a spoonful of jam on top of the ice, and gradually stir it in to taste.

does the jam totally dissolve in the liquor or does it kind of act as a thickener and alter the texture of the drink?

CR,

I have had drinks of both types incorporating jam. I think it's just the obvious - depends on consistency of jam/jelly/marmalade and amount used.

GoCubsGo,

1) This thread has covered lots of other things besides fancy drink recipes. 2) I also probably wouldn't have been interested in a lot of this stuff when I was 21 or w/e, either. I don't know what to tell you besides gtfo and stop queering things up. Thanks!

Amateur Question:

I haven't spent a lot of time in bars, but I hadn't really ever seen what I saw this weekend.

Someone ordered a drink with a 20, and then left the change on the bar the entire night. Now, they were sitting there, but usually I see people pull the cash back and just put more out when they want the next drink.

I asked some of my bar patron friends, and they too said they'd never heard of it.

Is this as rare as I'm believing it is?