A couple quick things, since I could EASILY spend hours talking about this(which I have on several occasions), and don't type nearly as fast as I talk.

- Obv the OP is full of crap, as shown in 4 or 5 different instances in his OP alone.
- imo, counting isn't very worthwhile unless combined with comp hustling. Not to say there isn't $ to be made, but done right, comp hustling almost doubles your edge, (depending on the casino) and your big losing trips are often mitigated by overgenerous comps since you got crushed.
- gitfiddle seems to know his stuff, but I take issue with a couple points;
1. Given that there is no index for splitting tens vs a 9 in AOII, (or ANY count-based system, for that matter, I'm going to guess that Asian woman was just an Asian BJ player.
2. While spreading over 10-1 can be hard, especially in a double deck game, it's not an insta-ban, for sure. For probably 100+ hours of play at MGM properties, exclusively on DD's, I used a 1-12+ spread in different ways, with my records being spreading 1-33 ($25-$825) and 1-36 ($50-2x$900) in a single shoe. Never got banned until after I moved here, although I think my host at the time provided a ton of cover for me.
- I am not a very good card counter at all. I lose the exact count a lot, and don't even use all of the Illustrious 18 plays on decisions, but not many people are better than me at getting the big bets out there, or dropping down bet sizes surreptitiously when necessary. I never actually fully tracked win and losses, as I looked at BJ as a sideline thing, but I think I have won 50-60k overall, even with being down ~5k since I moved here almost 2 years ago(I rarely play anymore).
- Just like being good at poker isn't in the top 5 things you need to be a pro poker player imo, being a good counter isn't in the top 5 things you need either. Game selection, Casino comportment, knowing when to quit, comp hustling, and bankroll management and Game nuances are all far more important imo.
- I have now been backed off or flat bet at 5 or 6 properties, all but one I was able to play at again with no issues. In almost every instance it is because I was blase' about camoflage. When I'm playing seriously, I have a VERY good act, my pinnacle likely getting the entire BJ pit at Binion's back in 2000 singing "More than Words" while I spread from $10-$160 in a single deck game. A decent tolerance for girly drinks helps, as well as being a good tipper.
- Imo, the two best books for a budding card counter are Comp Cityby Max Rubin, (which is out-of print, I think, but soon available in e-book form and Burning the Tables In Las Vegas by Ian Anderson, with his "The Ultimate Gambit" chapter being the most important chapter ever written on Blackjack.

I was never a pro BJ player, probably couldn't be, but I'll be happy to answer any Q's anyone has as best I can.

Stanford Wong wrote an exhaustive and eye-opening treatment on this subject in Wong on Dice. I, too, was a nonbeliever until reading his book, although I feel the it takes too much effort to avail an edge, which is too hard to be able to reproduce in a casino environment without getting heat.

this so much

Still a good thread despite OP being a moron

(clicks the OOT link)

"Hmmm, a pro BJ player started an 'Ask Me' thread! Awesome. I used to count 20 years ago, but gave it up for poker because the risk was sky-high and the EV almost nothing, I literally earned $.10/hr my first few-hundred hours in the low-limit games...I've sometimes wondered if BJ was still beatable, I tuned out long before the CSMs arrived...

"Oh hell, the OP's name in this thread is 'Fellatio Receiver'. This thread is going to suck, isn't it?"

(clicks the thread)

"Yup, sure enough, this thread is a joke. But one guy seems to know what he's talking about, I'll stick it out."

***

Glad I did, thanks to all who are bringing this topic back to life.

I just want to add one thing that I never see written about BJ, but it's probably the pit critters' #1 Rule of the Road:

The young guy by himself with the baseball cap? If all you do is watch him (and there's a never-ending line of 'em coming in), you've earned your pay for the shift.

Dayuum - that seems so obvious now you've said it!

Not true. The fact that he doesn't understand variance/session length does not prevent an edge. As long as he bets big on positive counts and little on negative, he has an edge. The fact that he uses dumb reasons for session length (based on win/loss size) doesn't change that. He goes and plays somewhere else, so there's no difference.

He clearly understands the mechanics of counting and knows to stay on the move, and that's what it takes. That, and not overbetting your BR, which he gave no indication of doing.

Pretty childish pile-up on the guy, and then he's the one who get's banned.

Instead, someone might have just explained his faulty reasoning, that it's all one session, which he already kind of understood because he backed off once it was pointed out.

And are you all going to ridicule the people who claimed it was erroneous to risk $5000 to win $250, or do they get a pass as regs?

Thread got really good, keep it up!

Yeah, I believe newold is correct. Lots of regular players dislike the CSM's and seem to prefer getting to see the decks. They even like the "breaks" they get during a shuffle. Silly because they can get up whenever they want. But an actual quick break at the table seems preferred by some.

So I guess the casino noticed that business was less at the CSM's. And determined to continue offering shoe games while watching for the counter...most of which are losers anyway.


Lol at YTF's backwards ballcap thing. Somewhat true. Although many poker tournament guys fit that description and almost all who play blackjack are terrible still. But certaimly the chance it is counter goes up quite a bit when it is youngish male with backwards ballcap...no doubt.

Any old-school counters ever shown the back door rather than the front, or is that just Las Vegas mythos?

Clearly OP was this guy:

Not at all. The MIT team used Hi-Lo, which is an even simpler count. Complex counts add only slivers of EV for tremendous effort, and for most people makes it impossible to remain alert and engaged with the environment. When I stopped counting about 9 years ago, there was a significant movement of excellent players back to Hi-Lo. You can make up for the slightly lower EV just by playing an extra 20 minutes.

BTW, why did fellatio get banned for misunderstanding something, while the following comments from others get no penalty?

I've read Bringing Down The House before but am not really knowledgeable in blackjack. My gut thought is that the MIT teams could use a more basic system because the person keeping the count wasn't the person spreading the bet range. Is this in anyway true?

I don't know why you think you need to defend a troll, but his gambling logic and his statements about variance and how important it is to leave when you are ahead because otherwise variance will bite you in the ass were idiotic.

Piling on idiots/trolls is pretty standard in OOT. Especially ones who refuse to admit they started an attention whoring thread about being a pro with such obvious flaws in his gambling logic.

However, given that some people with good blackjack counting stories decided to post, the thread turned out good/interesting, both in terms of actual knowledge and for everyone who enjoys watching an idiot get called out for being an idiot.

But LOL that a troll (who trolled at least one other forum as well) shouldn't have been banned. Just LOL.

PS - I'm not the mod who banned the troll.

OP switched to slots. Click for more wisdom.

haha, that is awesome. I admire such sick dedication to what many would call some hair brained idea



I thought you said you were losing lifetime trying to cheat at dice?

How many hours ballpark would you say youve done this for at a casino?