midiman, do you like nba? you should come over to our sporting events forum if so.

And most doll owners don't have those illusions either, so what's the point?


As to the BIG difference? Would you care to elaborate on what you see as the big difference ?

You admittedly talk about them like they're real people, with real feelings and real hopes and fears and desires. One of you previously discussed posting in the dolls alive subforum. It's not the masturbation aspect that most of us are struggling with, it's that you are treating objects like women, man.

Guys care for their dolls the same way as guys care for their cars. Perhaps confusion stems from the term love. We can love our boats and our cars and we can love our dolls. This is not the same kind of love you have in a relationship. Most doll owners know they have an inanimate object that cannot possible return love and respect. However, it is you that is trying to identify with the dolls as being human, not the doll owners.

In the same breath, people love and respect art forms. These adult dolls go far beyond the scope of sex. As I stated earlier, they are like classic cars. Sure you can drive them, but most of the time is spent, cleaning polishing and admiring them. This is the bulk of the users you will find in the forum.

There is a world of difference displaying a fully anatomically correct, properly clothed or erotically posed doll and presenting your pocket pal to your friends.

Hey, if this doesn't turn your crank, go find something that does. Don't go crapping on the people that do enjoy sharing the hobby. Gambling doesn't exactly have the best acceptance by society either and has ruined a lot more lives than masturbating with dolls. I won't knock poker and you don't need to knock doll ownership.

Do you fantasize about real women when you're having sex with it?

I'm not knocking it at all. It's the emotional bonding that is puzzling, not the masturbatory part.

CORRECTION: At least 80% have had sex with live partners. Now you know why I don't play poker

Nobody is going to buy those statistics.

How hard is it to make dolls that look actually attractive? Or human for that matter? Most of the doll pictures posted look barely human, even after accounting for the plastic looking skin. And if they are human, they look like ****ed up 35yo skanks with thinning hair or something.

So, I have a doubly hard time understanding this emotional bonding stuff given how very poorly made the "cars" are.

Well that is a ludicrous statement given that only 49% are confirmed as single. What do you think the national average is for men over 30 that have had sex at least once with a woman?

Serious question: How many don't?

More specifically:

• How many doll owners forget, at least occasionally, that their doll is not alive? How often? When? (During sex, otherwise... both?)
• How many (any?) doll owners forget almost all the time (or all the time) that their doll is not alive?

____________


Other issues, as opposed to questions for you:

1. You might tell the others on your forum that one reason we can't come there and ask questions (something that was suggested in the thread that TheMessenger started there) is the need to register and get moderator approval of questions. Our experience with "ask me" threads is that they work very well when someone like you is answering questions from many people, some of whom may have only a casual interest in the subject at hand. That couldn't happen if we did it there, and merely browsing the forums without interacting doesn't work as well either.
2. The links from here to there are working fine for me; I'm not sure why people are having difficulty.

How many doll owners turn to dolls as substitutes after long periods of not being with women (sexually and/or romantically)?

More interestingly, perhaps: For those who do, do you believe doing so makes or will make it harder for them to return to what the rest of us consider the "real world" of dating and sex with humans? I could imagine that it would become very easy to fall into a pseudo-relationship with a doll and then have a hard time extricating oneself from it — does that happen much?

If people do turn to dolls, and then relinquish or lose interest in them — how long does the doll period usually last? Is there a point at which you would guess that someone is very likely never to give dolls up?

I realize you may not have personal knowledge of the answer to all these questions, but I hope you'll give your impression based on what you've seen and heard from the doll community.

Well first of all, you're comparing a sanitation issue to an etiquette issue. I don't leave semen around because most rational people would be grossed out. Similarly, I would not leave food I dropped laying around on the couch and invite friends to sit on it. So please don't use arguments that are irrelevant to what I asked.

To the second point, I do not currently have a GF. If I did, I would not have her just to bang. There is an emotional connection that would cause me to date her. As such, I would not be locking her in the closet when I have company, because I would want that to be an aspect of our relationship going to the future. If the girl were only a bonk buddy, I would still not lock her in the closet. I would let her interact with people if she were over. If she wouldn't be a good fit, I wouldn't invite people over.

What's the diff? The difference is, my GF/FB is a rational being* capable of thought and emotion. Humans aren't to be put in a closet, unless the GF/BF comes home early and it will save the lives of everyone involved.

-----------------------------------------

* In theory Marge, in theory

First off, thanks to the two doll owners who have stepped up so far and have been willing to answer some questions.

Like most others here, I don’t have any problem with people using these dolls as sex toys or masturbation tools. Do whatever you want in your own home, I couldn't care less and I actually hope you have a good time with whatever you choose to do. And of course if they are very realistic looking and are anatomically correct and you put them in a still-photo in a suggestive position, our male brains respond as expected and we can feel aroused. I personally have no problem with any of that.

It is the lengths some of the doll owners go to convince themselves that their dolls are not only a suitable replacement for a real relationship with a real person but are in fact PEOPLE with feelings and moods and thoughts that I find very strange. That these owners introduce their dolls as girlfriends to other people and expect them to treat their doll as they would their real spouse, or worry about their doll getting lonely if they are gone too long, or get excited because they are going to buy their doll some expensive gift is hard to fathom. Since neither of you two seems to fit the bill, I don’t have many questions for you because I don’t find what you are doing to be that fascinating.

There definitely is a line between fantasy and reality, and, for some, these dolls seem to encourage one to bleed into the other to a dangerous degree, particularly if one starts off with the dolls before ever even attempting to have a relationship with a real woman, and then uses that as a continuing comfort as an excuse to stay “safe” with the doll forever and convince themselves it is a better choice. From what I’ve read in this thread, they grow so comfortable with this idea that they are now introducing their doll to friends and family as someone they care for and even love.

So I guess my questions for the doll owners who are currently responding are:

1) You mention that your community is very tolerant of fetish and role-playing and such. But do you feel that some of your members have taken their relationship with their dolls too far, and if so, what in your opinion is that line? What are some examples of behavior that you think other doll owners exhibit that you think is abnormal?

2) I get that people can become hugely attached to inanimate objects like a baseball card or their baby blanket. I understand that that might happen more easily with something that looks human and has given you pleasure. But do either of you have real feelings for any of your dolls? Would you be devastated if you lost any of your dolls like you would if you lost a member of your family?

3) For a bit of fun: Your building is on fire. You only have time to save one thing. Would you rather save:

your doll or a pet cat or dog
your doll or your computer with all your important family pictures and files
your doll or a suitcase with $10,000 inside
your doll or a stranger that is old and infirmed
your doll or a neighbor that you don’t particularly like
your doll or an acquaintance
your doll or your best friend.

I think some of them look pretty good, pointy elbows and all.

http://wimp.com/realrobot/

16% polled as using the doll as a place holder until mr or ms right came along while 15% stated they preferred the doll over a real human as a partner. Let's keep in mind some people are never going to find a suitable partner.

Again here you are putting your own thoughts out here. The doll owners are not delusional. They know what they have...even the ones that choose the doll over a real human companion. However, polling at TDF has showing that 85% of members woudl prefer a human partner over the doll. So you are talking about an extreme within this demographic.

Don't know. Many at TDF haev been using dolls for over 10 years. The original founder of TDF also has a female partner that shares the doll hobby.
There is, however, on statement that rings out in my mind from early on which seems to be a pattern. Many who purchase their first high end doll have a real f#ck fest for a brief time and then the relationship between doll and owner becomes less sexual. I use the term relationship in a general sense. It often turns to photography and sharing the hobby with other community members much like classic cars or other collectibles.

I suggest you drop over to TDF and check out the many polls that have been posted. Once you get your account past Newbie, you could post your own poll, or email or PM me and I will post a poll that may answer some of these questions.

As is the case with cars and all other things man made that are not inanimate,
I would be very worried that the programmer on the other end of the AI might not have fully thought out his algorithms when I asked my robotic doll to "Jerk it off!"

Of course, but one could also fantasize that the doll was a real woman.

As to relationships. I know of an individual that had two dolls that had never been in a relationship and was in his 30's. A dating website said it couldn't help him, yet a year later he got a match, has sold his dolls and is engaged to be married. This is typical of many doll owners, where the doll helps to fill some of the void left in the absence of a relationship but not all. Some argument has been given that the dolls in fact help one to keep their heart open.

So what if there are people who do prefer the dolls. Given the world population, perhaps this is a good thing. If someone can find happiness by himself using a doll to fill the void, how does this affect our society as a whole?

Why does this bother you? Does homosexuality bother you? Does Asexuality bother you? We cannot possible fit every single human being into a box or a slot, nor does it matter. What does matter is that people learn tolerance and do not scorn others becasue they are different. Man,look at how political correctness is ruining our society. Someone says Merry Christmas and another is offended by it becasue they are not Christian, rather than taking it as well wishing from another human being.

What do you hope to accomplish by your quest to confront someone who has in fact chosen a doll over a human relationship?

I wonder about this. Reading the forum over there and taking everything you read at face value, you might think it typical for a doll owner (many of them, anyway) to try to convince themselves of the highlighted (or even that they have succeeded in convincing themselves), but if you look closely it seems more like it's self-conscious fun most of the time, like they're not convinced of anything and know no one else is either, but are enjoying the fantasy. Yes, even the "Dolls Alive" forum — it looks to me like some very conscious play-acting.

Doll folks: True? If true, why? At get-togethers, do people stay in character the whole time? Is it an effort to do so, or an effort to break character regarding the dolls?



Different question: Obviously dolls are going to be getting more lifelike in the future, and eventually very lifelike. How many people who are now into dolls are likely to view that as a good thing? Is there a point at which a doll could be too realistic for a typical doll owner? (Yes, I know you're not cast out of the same mold, so to speak, but I can really only ask about general trends and tendencies.) Many of the dolls I see pictured on your site aren't very realistic looking compared to others — is there a substantial subset of owners who really prefer their doll be obviously doll-like, not human-like?

I may not have been clear. Speaking of the 85% who, at least on some level (and probably on most levels) would prefer to be with a human, to the extent the doll does substitute (highly imperfectly) it might both be good enough to take the edge off the need for a human companion, and thus the desire to seek one, and also contribute to sort of an atrophy of relationship skills. I was wondering how often and to what extent you thought that was an issue. Yes, I'm projecting my own biases here, plus impressions I got from the BBC video that someone linked to, which is why I was asking rather than simply assuming.

I dont have any specific questions, I just wanted to say that it is really cool and shows a lot of class of you two to come to a foreign forum to wade through condescension and present a point of view on a very interesting topic to total strangers. Thanks for having the bravery that Im sure 99% of this forum wouldnt have.

agreed

Now you seem to be getting it. Just like the Sims and Second Life are alter persona for many people to escape the tedium of everyday life, many doll owners role play their dolls such as in dolls alive. I myself play Bianca as close to how she appeared in the movie as I can.

However, at Meet and Greets, owners go as themselves and their dolls are addressed as their dolls, but usually referred to by name. The Dolls Alive forums was a more recent addition to TDF.

Even Davecat who has had his doll as his synthetik companion for 7 years I think, still acknowledges her as a doll, but then has stated in interviews that Sidore (his doll) can provide all the benefits of a real human relationship. There are very few people at TDF who would agree with that statement as it gives no value to conversation, companionship or response. If this is the type of individual you seek to talk to you should seek him out as in our polling no one at TDF was of the same point of view. Davecat has his own website and will probably give you a dozen hits and interviews on google.


It seems that most strive for as real as possible, however in fantasy play, it opens up other avenues. The Teddy Babes, for instance are a bit more comic book like, but also soft and warm and huggable, whereas the silicone dolls are heavy, cold, but look more life like. For me, I enjoy trying to breath life into the dolls in my photography. If I can fool even one onlooker I am happy.

I recently was showing some photos on my iPhone to some guys in a London Pub and the remarks were..."That's a doll? Jeesuzz...THAT"S a DOLL?"

It made my day When it comes to the high end silicone dolls, however, it is more a matter of taste. Some prefer them to be as real as possible in looks and features and others are happy with a more anime or cartoon like fantasy playmate. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The Ruby dolls are creations from the designers mind and not laser scanned adn have exaggerated features. They are not as real human female looking as a Wicked Doll by Abyss, but are just as desirable to those who like that kind of look.

Wickeddoll driving car, BoyToy in blue

Ruby13 Lillith

Again, I believe this is an issue with the 15% that polled as preferring a doll to a real human relationship. These dolls are a bit of a phenomenon, becasue they are pushing more mainstream and into the art sector. True, it is boinkable art, but then again many models haev been boinked as well

So again, my educated and supported answer is 15% I also believe that many of these already lack social skills and are unlikely to find or unable to handle a relationship, many of them being introverts. I also pass no judgment on these people as I would rather see happy and contented human beings than frustrated and unhappy ones. I am not about to try to push any individual into what society considers as the acceptable norm.

It was not that long ago (prior 1972), that homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Now it is not. As a matter of fact our member of parliament is a well known gay. Although we can argue on a biological level that the doll is not an acceptable partner, on the basis of evolution we could also argue that it helps to address this problem of overpopulation artificially as homosexuality does so naturally.

So what should it matter to us as long as it is peaceful and not bothering anyone else?

Thanks PJo336 and udbrky. As to why I'm here? I am about to release a documentary, so I might as well see how I carry myself now than when I get hit by the media interviews and question sessions unprepared You can view the 2 minute trailer and get a further insight of doll owners by clicking on the photo...



On this note, I'm afraid I must move on. I have much work to do. Thanks for being respectful in your posts and questions.

Have there been any religious right protests/legal attacks on real dolls? I imagine as they get cheaper and more popular, the fundamentalists will start to go nuts if they haven't already.