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Old 08-18-2016, 07:38 PM   #7401
Wondercall
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

I'm gonna be a diver driver! Started training on the twotter August 1. I need 100 hours to get checked out.

Any experience flying that?
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:08 PM   #7402
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

Is there a switch in the HVAC system that goes between recirculation and taking in outside air? It seem that frequently when in line to take off, the system is sucking in exhaust fumes from the other aircraft.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:33 PM   #7403
W0X0F
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professionalpoker View Post
Is there a switch in the HVAC system that goes between recirculation and taking in outside air? It seem that frequently when in line to take off, the system is sucking in exhaust fumes from the other aircraft.
There is no such switch. And you're right about the exhaust. The air used by the packs is tapped off of one of the compressor stages, but the original source is simply ambient air being sucked into the engine.
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Old Today, 10:00 AM   #7404
Anomandaris
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

WOXOF, What is your take on this? What went wrong and how bad of a decision was it to continue the take off rather than abort?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kle80KB_s3I
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Old Today, 10:45 AM   #7405
STinLA
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomandaris View Post
WOXOF, What is your take on this? What went wrong and how bad of a decision was it to continue the take off rather than abort?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kle80KB_s3I
Hopefully this doesn't violate protocol, but from reading 100s of posts in this forum my understanding is that once you hit V1 you're committed to flying, so aborting wasn't an option. But it also looked like they started rotating before VR was reached.

Assuming the basic competency of the pilots, they wouldn't just ignore the VR speed, so they believed they'd reached VR. This suggests those numbers were wrong. My follow up questions to W0X0F (assuming the foregoing is correct):
1) How frequently are V1 and VR miscalculated? I assume total weight of the aircraft (including passengers, luggage, and freight) are a factor, and is that calculation sometimes wrong? I know where humans are involved there is some error, so I mean how frequently is it wrong by an amount that matters.

2) Is there a safety factor built in to VR in case the weight was underestimated?

3) Given how important these values are, are there independent calculations performed that have to agree with each other before they're accepted?

Last edited by STinLA; Today at 10:52 AM.
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Old Today, 09:11 PM   #7406
W0X0F
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomandaris View Post
WOXOF, What is your take on this? What went wrong and how bad of a decision was it to continue the take off rather than abort?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kle80KB_s3I
My first thought upon seeing this is that the PM (Pilot Monitoring) called "Rotate" prior to the actual rotation speed and the airplane failed to actually get airborne. This mistake could be a simple consequence of not correctly setting the speed bugs on the airspeed indicator. This would be a mistake that should definitely be caught during the taxi or before takeoff check list (sitting here typing this, I can't remember which checklist covers this). Both pilots call out and confirm the V speeds but, humans being fallible, it's always possible to fail this simple task due to some distraction (perhaps the tower called during that checklist and this item got missed).

STinLA raises the possibility of an incorrect rotation speed being used. In this scenario, the PM calls "Rotate" at the agreed upon speed, but it's incorrect and hilarity ensues. (Sorry, I shouldn't be flippant about such matters.)

Our V speeds are calculated by computers and GIGO applies. If the plane is loaded in a manner completely different than what's reported, weight and/or CG can be in error. As pilots, we place a lot of trust in this process and we aren't involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STinLA View Post
1) How frequently are V1 and VR miscalculated? I assume total weight of the aircraft (including passengers, luggage, and freight) are a factor, and is that calculation sometimes wrong? I know where humans are involved there is some error, so I mean how frequently is it wrong by an amount that matters.
NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System is probably the best source to try to quantify this number. You can actually go this website and search their database. I'm sure some weight and balance discrepancies don't get reported, but anytime it actually affects safety of flight I think a pilot would report it. My guess is that it's an extremely small percentage (which, of course, it had better be!).

Quote:
2) Is there a safety factor built in to VR in case the weight was underestimated?
Not that I'm aware of.

Quote:
3) Given how important these values are, are there independent calculations performed that have to agree with each other before they're accepted?
I'm not at all sure what system of checks and balances exist in the load planning/dispatch process. But I can tell you that everyone knows how extremely important proper weight and balance is to safety of flight and safety is always #1. Sounds like a slogan, but it's definitely true.
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Old Today, 09:37 PM   #7407
W0X0F
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Re: Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

After typing the previous response, I started poking around in the Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS) and saw a link for "ASRS Report Sets." I clicked on it and it shows some links to some of the major types of reports that NASA receives. I was hoping there might be a report set for weight and balance issues, but I don't see one.

However, readers of this thread might find some of the other report sets interesting. Here's a list of what they have there (note, these report sets are large PDF files):

Air Carrier (FAR 121) Flight Crew Fatigue Reports

A sampling of reports involving air carrier (FAR 121) flight crew fatigue.

Altitude Deviations
A sampling of altitude deviation reports.

Air Traffic Controller Reports
A variety of reports from ATC Controllers.

Bird or Animal Strike Reports
A sampling of reports referencing a bird or animal strike incident.

Cabin Smoke, Fire, Fumes, or Odor Incidents
A sampling of air carrier reports concerning cabin smoke, fire, fumes or odor related events.

Checklist Incidents

A sampling of reports from all aviation arenas referencing checklist issues (design, procedures, distraction, etc.).

Commuter and Corporate Flight Crew Fatigue Reports
A sampling of reports referencing Commuter and Corporate flight crew fatigue issues and duty periods.

Commuter and GA Icing Incidents
A sampling of aircraft icing encounter reports from GA and Commuter flight crews.

Controlled Flight Toward Terrain
A sampling of reports referencing inadvertent controlled flight towards terrain.

CRM Issues
Crew Resource Management (CRM) inflight situations (conflicts, NMACs, and emergencies).

Emergency Medical Service Incidents
A sampling of reports concerning Emergency Medical Service (EMS) incidents.

Flight Attendant Reports
A sampling of Flight Attendant reports involving aircraft cabin issues.

Fuel Management Issues
A sampling of reports referencing incidents of fuel mismanagement, and operational concerns for fuel planning.

General Aviation Flight Training Reports
A sampling of reports involving general aviation flight training.

Global Positioning (GPS) Reports
A variety of incident reports involving the use of GPS devices.

Inflight Weather Encounters
A sampling of reports from both air carrier flight crews and GA pilots referencing encounters with severe or unforecast weather.

Maintenance Reports
A sampling of reports from aircraft maintenance personnel.

Multi-Engine Turbojet Aircraft Upsets Incidents
Reports concerning turbojet uncommanded control surface movements and unusual aircraft attitudes.

Near Midair Collision Incidents
Reports concerning near midair collision events.

Non-Tower Airport Incidents
A sampling of reports involving operations at non-tower airports.

Parachutist / Aircraft Conflicts
A sampling of reports involving parachuting activity and conflicts with aircraft.

Passenger Electronic Devices
A sampling of reports referencing avionics problems that may result from the influence of passenger electronic devices.

Passenger Misconduct Reports
A sampling of reports referencing disruptive passenger encounters with cabin crew or flight crew members.

Penetration of Prohibited Airspace
A sampling of reports involving TFR and ADIZ incidents.

Pilot / Controller Communications
A sampling of reports which highlight issues involving communications between pilots and controllers.

RNAV Arrival Reports
A sampling of reports that reference RNAV Arrival related incidents.

Rotary Wing Aircraft Flight Crew Reports
A sampling of reports from flight crew of rotary wing aircraft.

Runway Incursions
A sampling of reports from all aviation arenas referencing runway incursions.

Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) Reports
A sampling of reports involving Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) events.

Wake Turbulence Encounters
A sampling of reports from flight crews encountering, or affected by, turbojet wake turbulence.
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