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I have seen conflicting information, and thought it best to ask... in Georgia specifically how long a lockblade pocketknife is legal?
In a non-Georgia specific question, what would you do if you had a contractor that had been paid quit taking your calls after they had agreed to do follow-up work to fix things they had done shoddily?
I have seen conflicting information, and thought it best to ask... in Georgia specifically how long a lockblade pocketknife is legal?
How funny you should ask! The law changed today.
Well, yesterday now.
This is going to be a long answer, because I'm gonna cite everything I'm telling you. Cliffs are at the bottom.
From OCGA 16-11-125.1
Quote:
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-125.1 (2012)
§ 16-11-125.1. Definitions
As used in this part, the term:
(1) "Handgun" means a firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which any shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged by an action of an explosive where the length of the barrel, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed 12 inches; provided, however, that the term "handgun" shall not include a gun which discharges a single shot of .46 centimeters or less in diameter.
(2) "Knife" means a cutting instrument designed for the purpose of offense and defense consisting of a blade that is greater than five inches in length which is fastened to a handle.
(3) "License holder" means a person who holds a valid weapons carry license.
(4) "Long gun" means a firearm with a barrel length of at least 18 inches and overall length of at least 26 inches designed or made and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or made to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed:
(A) Shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger or from which any shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged; or (B) Metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifle bore for each single pull of the trigger;
provided, however, that the term "long gun" shall not include a gun which discharges a single shot of .46 centimeters or less in diameter.
(5) "Weapon" means a knife or handgun.
(6) "Weapons carry license" or "license" means a license issued pursuant to Code Section 16-11-129.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGCA 16-11-126
16-11-126. Having or carrying handguns, long guns, or other weapons; license requirement; exceptions for homes, motor vehicles, and other locations and conditions; penalties for violations
(a) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon or long gun on his or her property or inside his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business without a valid weapons carry license.
(b) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry on his or her person a long gun without a valid weapons carry license, provided that if the long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposed manner.
(c) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry any handgun provided that it is enclosed in a case and unloaded.
(d) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun who is eligible for a weapons carry license may transport a handgun or long gun in any private passenger motor vehicle; provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such property shall have the right to forbid possession of a weapon or long gun on their property, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-135.
(e) Any person licensed to carry a handgun or weapon in any other state whose laws recognize and give effect to a license issued pursuant to this part shall be authorized to carry a weapon in this state, but only while the licensee is not a resident of this state; provided, however, that such licensee shall carry the weapon in compliance with the laws of this state.
(f) Any person with a valid hunting or fishing license on his or her person, or any person not required by law to have a hunting or fishing license, who is engaged in legal hunting, fishing, or sport shooting when the person has the permission of the owner of the land on which the activities are being conducted may have or carry on his or her person a handgun or long gun without a valid weapons carry license while hunting, fishing, or engaging in sport shooting.
(g) Notwithstanding Code Sections 12-3-10, 27-3-1.1, 27-3-6, and 16-12-122 through 16-12-127, any person with a valid weapons carry license may carry a weapon in all parks, historic sites, or recreational areas, as such term is defined in Code Section 12-3-10, including all publicly owned buildings located in such parks, historic sites, and recreational areas, in wildlife management areas, and on public transportation; provided, however, that a person shall not carry a handgun into a place where it is prohibited by federal law.
(h) (1) No person shall carry a weapon without a valid weapons carry license unless he or she meets one of the exceptions to having such license as provided in subsections (a) through (g) of this Code section.
Quote:
§ 16-11-127. Carrying weapons in unauthorized locations; penalty
(a) As used in this Code section, the term:
(1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets.
(2) "Courthouse" means a building occupied by judicial courts and containing rooms in which judicial proceedings are held.
(3) "Government building" means:
(A) The building in which a government entity is housed;
(B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or
(C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.
(4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.
(5) "Parking facility" means real property owned or leased by a government entity, courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar that has been designated by such government entity, courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar for the parking of motor vehicles at a government building or at such courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar.
(b) A person shall be guilty of carrying a weapon or long gun in an unauthorized location and punished as for a misdemeanor when he or she carries a weapon or long gun while:
(1) In a government building;
(2) In a courthouse;
(3) In a jail or prison;
(4) In a place of worship;
(5) In a state mental health facility as defined in Code Section 37-1-1 which admits individuals on an involuntary basis for treatment of mental illness, developmental disability, or addictive disease; provided, however, that carrying a weapon or long gun in such location in a manner in compliance with paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of this Code section shall not constitute a violation of this subsection;
(6) In a bar, unless the owner of the bar permits the carrying of weapons or long guns by license holders;
(7) On the premises of a nuclear power facility, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.2, and the punishment provisions of Code Section 16-11-127.2 shall supersede the punishment provisions of this Code section; or
(8) Within 150 feet of any polling place, except as provided in subsection (i) of Code Section 21-2-413.
(c) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a license holder or person recognized under subsection (e) of Code Section 16-11-126 shall be authorized to carry a weapon as provided in Code Section 16-11-135 and in every location in this state not listed in subsection (b) of this Code section; provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such property shall have the right to forbid possession of a weapon or long gun on their property, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-135. A violation of subsection (b) of this Code section shall not create or give rise to a civil action for damages.
(d) Subsection (b) of this Code section shall not apply:
(1) To the use of weapons or long guns as exhibits in a legal proceeding, provided such weapons or long guns are secured and handled as directed by the personnel providing courtroom security or the judge hearing the case;
(2) To a license holder who approaches security or management personnel upon arrival at a location described in subsection (b) of this Code section and notifies such security or management personnel of the presence of the weapon or long gun and explicitly follows the security or management personnel's direction for removing, securing, storing, or temporarily surrendering such weapon or long gun; and
(3) To a weapon or long gun possessed by a license holder which is under the possessor's control in a motor vehicle or is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle and such vehicle is parked in a parking facility.
Carefully read the definitions. I highlighted the relevant code. Pay careful attention to the word "weapon" since "knife" is defined but the word "knife" doesn't appear in the relevant codes again, however, a knife with a blade "Greater than 5""is further defined as a "weapon".
Now, the next question: "Can I carry a knife with a 3.5" blade in a bar, since the code specifically defines a knife as "greater than 5"?"
I think so. IANAL.
Basically, it's complicated. GeorgiaCarry.org has been working and lobbying to get these laws (most of which were intentionally vaguely written as Jim Crow laws) clarified into plain English legislation, so we know exactly where we stand. It's a slow moving process. GCO was able to get "knife" legally defined in the code, but still has yet to get full clarification on this issue. When I first read these changes I wrote a letter to Sam Olens (GA AG) and asked for an opinion. To paraphrase the opinion, (Since this post is already TL;DR) for the purposes of carry, 5" equals a weapon. If you carry a knife with a blade greater than 5" in length, you require a GWCL. With a GWCL, you can quite literally hang a machete off your belt and walk down the street legally.
Cliffs:
You can carry a blade under 5" without a GWCL.
You can carry any blade you desire with a valid GWCL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky Buddha
In a non-Georgia specific question, what would you do if you had a contractor that had been paid quit taking your calls after they had agreed to do follow-up work to fix things they had done shoddily?
LOL sick timing right? Even the longest Recon 1 knives that I am partial to are only 4" iirc, so I am golden. I think I will abstain from getting the permit so I can carry one of my kukris around. lol
ROFL at the suggestion...I will definitely think of another way to go...but will most assuredly fantasize about going with that one though.
I have seen conflicting information, and thought it best to ask... in Georgia specifically how long a lockblade pocketknife is legal?
In a non-Georgia specific question, what would you do if you had a contractor that had been paid quit taking your calls after they had agreed to do follow-up work to fix things they had done shoddily?
As to part B, I may be wrong, but if you didn't have anything in writing, you may be screwed. Verbal declarations aren't so binding irl.
I know that if you called to file a report, I'd listen to your story, but my guess is in any event it's probably going to be a civil matter and not anything LE could assist you with.
The only times we can really help is when you've got stolen property to report.
We occasionally get into it because people will get pissed off at their contractors, usually in reality for working too slowly, and will fire the contractor over the phone, call 911 and attempt to get us to Criminal Trespass the contractor so they'll be arrested when they come back to pick their gear up.
We don't do it, we usually waste a lot of time explaining the CT law to them, explaining to them that they'll be charged with Theft if they refuse to turn the tools over when the contractor comes, typically get called back out by the contractor because dude wants to give him **** about collecting his tools, just a lot of drama.
I did have a written contact, and the work was clearly not acceptable as any reasonable man would define it, so I am pretty good there. He did take things without asking like copper pipe...window treatments that were still nice but I was just not going to use...led lightbulbs and the like. I did consider pressing charges for that part, but yhea, I did imagine myself making the complaint and suffering through some eyerolls from the leo that had to file it because that would be pretty petty.
I had not thought of any plan to try to hold his tools hostage...that seems amazingly silly. I reckon you do have to get more than your share of calls to try to mediate disputes between the idiots from several villages that have somehow met each other.
(2) "Knife" means a cutting instrument designed for the purpose of offense and defense consisting of a blade that is greater than five inches in length which is fastened to a handle.
(5) "Weapon" means a knife or handgun.
Does the blade length trump the design? Most of my kitchen knives have a blade longer than 5 inches. Although they could be used as weapons that is not the design. I'm thinking of a meat carving knife or chef's knife in particular.
Quote:
Basically, it's complicated. GeorgiaCarry.org has been working and lobbying to get these laws (most of which were intentionally vaguely written as Jim Crow laws) clarified into plain English legislation, so we know exactly where we stand. It's a slow moving process. GCO was able to get "knife" legally defined in the code, but still has yet to get full clarification on this issue. When I first read these changes I wrote a letter to Sam Olens (GA AG) and asked for an opinion. To paraphrase the opinion, (Since this post is already TL;DR) for the purposes of carry, 5" equals a weapon. If you carry a knife with a blade greater than 5" in length, you require a GWCL. With a GWCL, you can quite literally hang a machete off your belt and walk down the street legally.
Cliffs:
You can carry a blade under 5" without a GWCL.
You can carry any blade you desire with a valid GWCL.
Is a machete covered here? Suppose you come along a survey crew with machetes/brush choppers. Are they violating Georgia law? Let's say they are crossing a public right of way at the time.
Does the blade length trump the design? Most of my kitchen knives have a blade longer than 5 inches. Although they could be used as weapons that is not the design. I'm thinking of a meat carving knife or chef's knife in particular.
Is a machete covered here? Suppose you come along a survey crew with machetes/brush choppers. Are they violating Georgia law? Let's say they are crossing a public right of way at the time.
Both of these are very good questions I do not know the answer to.
My guess on your second question is if a cop was stupid enough to happen along a crew carrying machetes clearing brush and arrested them, the argument would be that the machete is a landscaping implement.
My guess is this law is targetting a select few who carry around Ka-Bars and other specifically weapon designed blades.
Let's face it, for most men 5" is about all the pocketknife you're going to fit clipped on to a pocket. Anything larger than that will have to be carried in a sheath anyway.
You raise excellent points though.
Edit: I'd say an argument from the State could arise that the method of carry speaks to intent as well. If you have a 9" chef's knife in a case in your passenger seat, that confers a completely different intent than if you were to create a custom sheath for your chefs knife and carry it around on your hip.
Sure, if someone jumps in your backseat and attempts to carjack you, they may get stabbed with the same knife in either scenario, but in the former, defense of self was clearly not your motive.
Last edited by DblBarrelJ; 07-02-2012 at 09:48 PM.
Ok, I have a little bit of an interesting situation that came up. I have a company vehicle and work for a large corporation. I got an email from our Corporate Headquarters on Friday which had an attachment from an attorney in San Antonio(I live in Missouri) trying to collect a $100 debt from a photo traffic violation where I apparently ran a red light on June 14, 2010! This was not even in my current company vehicle but my old company car.
The weird part is I had absolutely zero knowledge of this citation until this past Friday when I got the email. Presumably, the ticket got sent to Ohio(where our headquarters are) 2+ years ago but I never knew about it.
My question is how do I proceed? I'm definitely going to take care of this asap as hell, I may even have a warrant out for my arrest over it. That being said, I'm a nit and I don't want to pay it. I've heard you can request a trial over a traffic ticket and get out of it fairly easily. The other thing I have read is that the city/state legally has to post a sign that says there are traffic cameras in use within 300 feet of an intersection. There are none of those here.
Different states have different statutes regarding the traffic cams.
The fact that you were sent a collection letter from some attorney in Texas leads me to believe this is a civil matter. Criminal courts do not farm fines out to collections attorneys, they issue bench warrants and place you on Probation until the fine is paid.
I'd follow up in a completely different way than I've advised thus far ITT. Since it is an attempt to collect a debt, I'd send this letter, certified, back to the attorney:
Quote:
Your Name
Your Address
City, State Zip
Collection Agency
Collection Agency Address
City, State Zip
Re: Acct # XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX
To Whom It May Concern:
I am sending this letter to you in response to a notice I received from you on (date of letter). Be advised, this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.
This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your office provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.
Please provide me with the following:
What the money you say I owe is for;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state; and
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent.
If your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the three major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion), said action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:
Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act
Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Defamation of Character
If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.
Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel. This includes any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.
If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.
I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls or correspondence sent to any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter.
This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.
Best Regards,
Your Signature
Your Name
Two Plus Two
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