Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > 2+2 Communities > Other Other Topics

Other Other Topics Discussion of arts & entertainment, pop culture, food & drink, health and exercise, fashion, relationships, work, and just about anything else in life except poker, sports, religion and politics.

View Poll Results: Is Amanda Knox innocent or guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher in Perugia Italy?
There is reasonable doubt here and should be found not guilty. 338 26.30%
She is guilty as can be and should be found guilty. 511 39.77%
She is completely innocent and should be acquitted. 138 10.74%
Undecided 298 23.19%
Voters: 1285. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2012, 07:05 AM   #8761
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,256
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
If your interested in the real truth about how bogus the prosecutions case was and all the screw ups the police made then http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/ is the website to read. There's also a forum that has all the court documents if you click the link from that page.
Or you can skip all the bull**** and the admitted extensive PR efforts of the Knox family and just read the Massei report - the actual judgement of the judge involved in the case: Massei Report (pdf)

Finally, you can just apply a common sense test. I assume the parents of the victim are completely normal, nice people (please tell me if you disagree, Tony), and they believed that Amanda did it. Their experts concurred with the prosecution in the case, and they ran up substantial bills paying for these experts independently and having them testify as civil participants. The bill was 260,000 euros according to the Massei report.

Why would they do this? Wouldn't they have greater familiarity with the facts and evidence in the case, and greater incentive to seek the truth about their daughter's death, than anyone? Certainly greater than you, who claim to be uninvolved with the coordinated Knox PR effort.

So you have the victim's parents, vs a large PR effort on the part of Knox and a PR firm they hired, whose admitted intention is to change public opinion of Knox. Hmmm. Who to believe??

Last edited by Truthsayer; 12-05-2012 at 07:15 AM.
Truthsayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:12 AM   #8762
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Henry17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: You've got a friend in me
Posts: 27,123
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatTony- View Post
If your interested in the real truth about how bogus the prosecutions case was and all the screw ups the police made then http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/ is the website to read. There's also a forum that has all the court documents if you click the link from that page.
A site that is full of lies is what you put up as a place people can go for information?

If people want information on this case they should go to the original court materials. Nothing else is really acceptable.
Henry17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:24 AM   #8763
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthsayer View Post
Or you can skip all the bull**** and the admitted extensive PR efforts of the Knox family and just read the Massei report - the actual judgement of the judge involved in the case: Massei Report (pdf)

Finally, you can just apply a common sense test. I assume the parents of the victim are completely normal, nice people (please tell me if you disagree, Tony), and they believed that Amanda did it. Their experts concurred with the prosecution in the case, and they ran up substantial bills paying for these experts independently and having them testify as civil participants. The bill was 260,000 euros according to the Massei report.

Why would they do this? Wouldn't they have greater familiarity with the facts and evidence in the case, and greater incentive to seek the truth about their daughter's death, than anyone? Certainly greater than you, who claim to be uninvolved with the coordinated Knox PR effort.

So you have the victim's parents, vs a large PR effort on the part of Knox and a PR firm they hired, whose admitted intention is to change public opinion of Knox. Hmmm. Who to believe??
It's normal in wrongful convictions for the victims family to continue to believe in guilt. I could site many cases including ones where the prosecutor have told the family the person you thought did it, didn't do it. It's very sad how many lives are ruined when these clusterfuks occur.

The Kerchers will probably cling to guilt for a long time to come. Admitting otherwise means they wasted a small fortune on their lawyer and accepting what Guede really did to their daughter.
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:27 AM   #8764
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
A site that is full of lies is what you put up as a place people can go for information?

If people want information on this case they should go to the original court materials. Nothing else is really acceptable.
There is no lies Henry. The lies are from you Henry. Only one error has ever been found on IIP and that was regarding how the Supreme Court ruled regarding Amanda's statements during the interrorgation.
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:37 AM   #8765
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,256
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatTony- View Post
It's normal in wrongful convictions for the victims family to continue to believe in guilt. I could site many cases including ones where the prosecutor have told the family the person you thought did it, didn't do it. It's very sad how many lives are ruined when these clusterfuks occur.

The Kerchers will probably cling to guilt for a long time to come. Admitting otherwise means they wasted a small fortune on their lawyer and accepting what Guede really did to their daughter.
This is straight out of a prepared talking point, isn't it?

Why should we believe what you say, an anonymous poster on the internet who just arrived to this thread and has nothing to do with the rest of the forum, in the background of a massive Knox family PR effort to make Amanda look innocent.

You have no credibility whatsoever. This just proves it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatTony- View Post
There is no lies Henry. The lies are from you Henry. Only one error has ever been found on IIP and that was regarding how the Supreme Court ruled regarding Amanda's statements during the interrorgation.
I'm sorry but this just isn't possible. You've proven you're a liar beyond with that one statement. Even the most reliable sites have a number of errors and they come up over time. It's just the nature of dealing with lots of information.

And in a charged case like this one there will be a number of lies or admissions, especially when the family of the accused hires a PR firm to run a massive PR effort to change the public's opinion of the case:

Quote:
Public relations played a major part in the release of accused killer Amanda Knox from an Italian prison.

In fact, Knox’s father, Curt, told the Puget Sound Business Journal that hiring David Marriott as his daughter’s publicist was “one of the smartest things we ever did.” Marriott is a principal of Seattle PR company Gogerty Marriott.

The Puget Sound Business Journal details how it happened:

“By enlisting her friends and family, and targeting specific news organizations to tell the family’s story, Marriott eventually helped reshape how the world saw the young American. “
Truthsayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:48 AM   #8766
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17 View Post
Right because it is perfectly normal to find the DNA of someone not involved on the bra clasp of a dead girl.

Henry

Amanda had already revealed that she was involved by the fact that she told Meredith's friends information about the murder that only someone who was there would know.

Raffaele is asked to come to the police station and Amanda comes alone. The police let them sit in the bugged waiting room for a bit and they instantly start discussing a third person in code.

Raffaele goes off to get questioned and he tells them everything he said before was a lie. That Amanda asked him to lie. That the truth is she went out by herself.

Amanda then admits to being there. During her confession she reveals that Meredith was raped something that had not been officially released yet. She reveals that there was a single scream which matches what a witness said. She places herself in a public place where a witness saw her that night.

Given all this and the text message communication why wouldn't they believe her?



This was asked of you before and you ignored the question-- I suspect intentionally-- so I'll ask again. How long did they question Amanda before she confessed to being there?



There were no tapes.



While you are correct that every case draws a guilt vs innocence crowd I think the calibre of the camp is itself an important sign.

Looking at people who defend Amanda.

Bruce Fisher -- multiple bankruptcies, changed his name to avoid creditors, had to live with his mom at 40, got fired from working at a fur store because of his use of the store computer.

Steve Moore -- claims to be an FBI agent who worked on anti-terrorism but we find him working as university security at some small school -- gets fired. Claims to have testified at 9-11 inquiry but his name is not on the official witness list. Seems to know absolutely nothing about criminal investigations. Gets caught in a bunch of lies.

Frank -- Failed loser who is on his 3rd try at a scheme to make money off blogging. Beats his mom and sister. Comes to Canada and assaults a 71 year old man. Gets removed from the country so goes to the US where he assaults a women. Starts maintaining Amanda's is innocent at the same times starts asking for money from the retards who believe this. Cons you guys out of a decent amount of money. The group supports Frank and ostracizes the members who say he assaulted them despite the consistent pattern.

The general level of discourse. Just read the posts the people who claim she is innocent and those who argue for guilt. The intellectual gap is fairly obvious.
Henry your the master of throwing out a whole heap of lies and then expect someone to rebutt it all. When the person does and shows you're wrong, you ignore and move onto the next bit of garbage you can throw out.

I showed two basic things you were mistaken about and you quickly move onto the next. This has been going on for years. It's just a case of ignore the facts and keep spewing out the lies soon as you've been shown to be wrong.

You said Amanda admitted being in the room. She didn't.

You said Raffaele's DNA was on Meredith. It wasn't. When it was discovered on the hook of a bra clasp that had moved across the room over six weeks with 3-4 other male profiles on it. Most people go WTF, how did that happen? But not you Henry......

I will say this about Bruce, he dropped a letter from his surname out of fear of the hate group you belong to. He has a wife and young kids and was right to be concerned when he started advocating on behalf of Amanda and Raffaele. As soon as your hate group found out his real name, his home and work address were posted online and soon afterwards a member of pmf admitted driving past his house and describing it to other members of the group. His photos were posted on the forum and discussed at length. The moderator of the hate group talked about him everyday for a year with an avatar saying "where is Bruce". That's really disturbing behaviour but what do expect from people who have stalked Amanda's family and driven past her family home giving reports back to the group. People who have posted the hotel name supporters have stayed out. People who have driven to the university a supporter works at.

Members of the group have targeted the daughter of an ex FBI agent and a judge from Seattle.

Let me address the tapes. You say there were no tapes even though they were required by law. Mignini admitted everyone else was recorded but they had budget problems to record them for Amanda and Raffaele. Plzzz
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:57 AM   #8767
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthsayer View Post
This is straight out of a prepared talking point, isn't it?

Why should we believe what you say, an anonymous poster on the internet who just arrived to this thread and has nothing to do with the rest of the forum, in the background of a massive Knox family PR effort to make Amanda look innocent.

You have no credibility whatsoever. This just proves it:


I'm sorry but this just isn't possible. You've proven you're a liar beyond with that one statement. Even the most reliable sites have a number of errors and they come up over time. It's just the nature of dealing with lots of information.

And in a charged case like this one there will be a number of lies or admissions, especially when the family of the accused hires a PR firm to run a massive PR effort to change the public's opinion of the case:
Look at the case of Anthony Graves, 18 years on death row. The best prosector in Texas told the victims family he didn't do it and couldn't re prosecute the case but they didn't believe her and said he was guilty when he clearly wasn't.

Do you want me to list others where victims familes can't come to terms with the wrongful conviction of the people or person they thought murdered their loved ones?

Michael Mortons son took months to accept his dad was innocent of killing his mother after DNA cleared him of the murder.

Last edited by FatTony-; 12-05-2012 at 08:03 AM.
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:09 AM   #8768
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,256
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

lol, talking points at the ready. Good job. The Graves case didn't involve intelligent middle class people like Kercher's family who spent 260,000 Euros on their own experts. None of these guys had their own experts look at the evidence and participate in the trial. They only had what the prosecutor told them. So of course they'd be confused. The US system doesn't work like Italy.

And this isn't a case that hung on a confession. There were dozens of independent pieces of evidence that make no sense without guilt, and the Kerchers saw them all, in detail, and had their own experts go over them at great cost (260,000 euros). They were there, saw it all, and concluded she was guilty.

Compared to that, you have people coming in this thread, shills like you and 239 who only post here, who claim that there is no evidence or combination of evidence that even makes it even probable, let alone beyond a reasonable doubt, that she did it. That's just amazing, man.

Apart from that, do you have anything to say about your lie that only one error has been found on the site you like and linked to, something that isn't even possible?

Do you have any comment at all about the Knox's massive PR campaign to make Amanda look innocent?
Truthsayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:15 AM   #8769
Pooh-Bah
 
WhoIam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ☭
Posts: 4,993
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Can you please expand on Henry's role in his hate group?
WhoIam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:18 AM   #8770
239
Pooh-Bah
 
239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Providing right flavor
Posts: 4,802
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

FatTony, are you saying that a poster in this specific thread is a mass poster on PMF or TJMK? At the end of they day I have never had an interest in the forum wars regarding this topic between JREF, the various innocence forums, and the guilt sites. But if it turned out someone here was an epic guilter, that would be pretty amusing.

239 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:18 AM   #8771
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthsayer View Post
This is straight out of a prepared talking point, isn't it?

Why should we believe what you say, an anonymous poster on the internet who just arrived to this thread and has nothing to do with the rest of the forum, in the background of a massive Knox family PR effort to make Amanda look innocent.

You have no credibility whatsoever. This just proves it:


I'm sorry but this just isn't possible. You've proven you're a liar beyond with that one statement. Even the most reliable sites have a number of errors and they come up over time. It's just the nature of dealing with lots of information.

And in a charged case like this one there will be a number of lies or admissions, especially when the family of the accused hires a PR firm to run a massive PR effort to change the public's opinion of the case:
There was no PR supertanker conspiracy. They hired a small firm after the arrest because their phones were ringing off the hook from the worlds media. The firm organised interviews and media appearences. There's nothing out of the ordinary about that given it was such a high profile case and the family didn't know what to do under the circumstances. If it was your daughter, would you rather the media calling your phone non stop or calling your rep for comment or interview? I'd want someone else handling it vs taking phone calls at all hours. But that's just me.... other people might do it differently.
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:21 AM   #8772
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthsayer View Post
lol, talking points at the ready. Good job. The Graves case didn't involve intelligent middle class people like Kercher's family who spent 260,000 Euros on their own experts. None of these guys had their own experts look at the evidence and participate in the trial. They only had what the prosecutor told them. So of course they'd be confused. The US system doesn't work like Italy.

And this isn't a case that hung on a confession. There were dozens of independent pieces of evidence that make no sense without guilt, and the Kerchers saw them all, in detail, and had their own experts go over them at great cost (260,000 euros). They were there, saw it all, and concluded she was guilty.

Compared to that, you have people coming in this thread, shills like you and 239 who only post here, who claim that there is no evidence or combination of evidence that even makes it even probable, let alone beyond a reasonable doubt, that she did it. That's just amazing, man.

Apart from that, do you have anything to say about your lie that only one error has been found on the site you like and linked to, something that isn't even possible?

Do you have any comment at all about the Knox's massive PR campaign to make Amanda look innocent?
260.000 euros?????????? What?????? Where do you get this stuff from?

John Kercher in one of his nicely timed tabloid articles after the 1st trial said it had cost the family 40,000 pounds in expenses to date.
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:24 AM   #8773
Pooh-Bah
 
WhoIam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: ☭
Posts: 4,993
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 239 View Post
But if it turned out someone here was an epic guilter, that would be pretty amusing.
I'm actually going to have to agree with 239 here. Please out this person with XX,000 posts who goes around cyberstalking people who disagree with him.
WhoIam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:30 AM   #8774
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 616
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIam View Post
I'm actually going to have to agree with 239 here. Please out this person with XX,000 posts who goes around cyberstalking people who disagree with him.
He knows who he is. He's on websleuths and pmf and tjmk posting everyday for years. He left JREF feeling insecure because they laughed him off and then he went and lobbied for the thread to be shut down lol. That didn't work out to well

iirc he was also part of the wiki article manipulation.
FatTony- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 08:33 AM   #8775
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
LostOstrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: redacted
Posts: 9,328
Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatTony- View Post
One of the main posters in this thread here is a prolific poster from one of the three Knox hate sites. Infact, he's got tens of thousands of posts about Amanda all over the internet on various forums. He's a misogynist. I won't name him but he knows who he is.
which poster?
LostOstrich is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive