Fair enough, I checked myself with google and it was before.
They've been turning up continuously until Dids banned new posters when the outbreak happened. You yourself joined in December and have posted 471 posts exclusively in this thread. Like others before you and since. Not a single "guilter" has come here and posted exclusively in this thread. Only the Knox is innocent crowd.

Why do you think that is? It happens all over the internet. It's impossible to read news articles, threads, book reviews or anything else regarding Knox without a bunch of non member first timers leaving comments and misinformation highly favorable to Knox, slandering individuals hostile to KNox and repeating similar memes. And yet you claim a constantly updated Facebook page with comprehensive coverage of both threads (why threads?) and news articles that have comments is not driving pro Knox commenting traffic to these places and did not result in the shills that turned up. OK.

LOL

They didn't release the property for 18 months.

Have you seen the crime scene video? Someone had been there before the bra clasp was discovered and trashed the place. How do you think the bra clasp moved across the room?

But anyways here is Nick Pisa about what the intruders did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ented-out.html

It has twice been broken into in recent months, with unknown intruders scattering knives on the kitchen floor, burning candles and stealing the mattress from Miss Kercher's bedroom.

ETA I'm not saying the intruders broke in before the bra clasp was discovered but the cops had been back there.

Amazing.

So you started to lie. Realized this is not a newspaper comment section and I would call you on it. So then quickly added the bottom bit. You are a ****ing joke.

Where is the page number for the retraction?

Still waiting

Henry you're a joke.

In the last 24 hours you've shown you didn't even know which one of her lawyers spoken english or know what she really wrote in her diary. Your whole case and dellusions are based on things you've read in tabloids. You're such a lunatic you think Raffaele's father organised for someone to break into the cottage and you weren't aware about the candle burning the intruders did.

Let me understand if this is what we are comparing.

Me

Got confused over which of Knox's two lawyers is the English speaking one.

Believe a quote that is printed in several newspapers

You

Lied about a retraction of the false accusation -- when caught claimed there was a different retraction. Have refused to source it multiple times.

You lied about the details of the stain on the window.

You stated that the break-in happened before the bra hook was collected -- a claim that shills make everywhere knowing it is false then quickly edited it to say that what you said four lines above was not what you meant to say.

I'm sure there is more but too lazy to look back over the last 24 hours.

If anyone wants to see the crime scene videos and spot all the re-arranging that took place, here are the links. Filomenas room was altered within 3 hours on Nov 2.

The original crime scene video, minus frames showing Meredith's body.

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...ber_2_2007.mp4
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...2007_part1.mp4
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...2007_part2.mp4
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...walkaround.mp4

Police video of Sollecito's apartment, taken November 16, 2007

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce..._apartment.mp4

Police video shot on December 18, 2007, the day the bra fastener was found (shown in part 2)

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...2007_part1.mp4
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...2007_part2.mp4

Lower res but much smaller (135mb) render of both Dec. 18 videos
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/misce...opralluogo.mp4

What exactly are you saying? That it's unusual for things to be moved around as:

a) Police investigate, take samples and look for clues and
b) Police move a body and other objects out of the room?

This happens in every crime scene. Crime scenes aren't CSI TV shows where the camera zooms into the DNA spot. They are thoroughly investigated. Pictures are taken showing the undisturbed position of everything, and then things are moved around signficantly as investigations are done. How can police investigate covered surfaces and objects under other ones if they don't move stuff around a lot? How can they reconstruct a crime?

If police contamination is such an issue, as you dishonestly like to claim, why are the victim's activities during the day and the commission of the crime itself not a massive source of contamination? For example, if constantly changed gloves are picking up Sollecito's non existent DNA from the house to deposit in impossible amounts on a bra clasp, why didn't Kercher contaminate her clothes, bag,bra etc with Knox's DNA as she moved around the apartment and shared bathroom that day? She wore no gloves. Why aren't the killer's or victim's hands and clothes, contaminated from touching things prior to and during the murder, depositing Amanda's DNA in the murder room, on the clothes, bra and body?

You talk about contamination by the police and by things being moved, but completely ignore the largest source of contamination which is present in every crime scene - that of the victim's actions the day of her death, and the killer. The possibility of contamination from this dwarfs what the police did, even if they didn't follow procedure perfectly. You also ignore the fact that Knox's DNA was found nowhere in that room - which intuitively makes every non idiot understand that in the specifics of this case, moving stuff, bad police procedure, whatever else, had a very low probability of contamination. If it didn't we would find Knox's DNA on many of the multiple samples taken from the room.

But you don't like to talk about this because it would implicitly admit what experts know - that contamination of viable DNA such as that found on the bra is very rare and actually impossible from touch transfer. It would also kill dead your xenophobic "lol incompetent Italian cops" meme that you and the Friends of Amanda people need to push for PR purposes.

I don't understand the bolded. Thieves broke in before the bra clasp was discovered by police, or not?

Seems like you have edited your post to contradict what you have said. Why didn't you just delete what you said when you edited?

This seems to be very important to you, can you enlighten us as to how this affects the case?

The pro-innocence side has a general failure to understand logic and non-trivial reasoning.

We make fun of their ridiculous reasoning abilities and this makes them very self-conscious so they try to latch onto any opportunity to assert their superiority.

Of course, it just makes them look even dumber.

I should have edited it.

.

lol

would you like to discuss the case?

I'm actually going to go even further and say that this is part of their general life failures. They have a hard time understanding not just probabilities but also how different facts have different levels of importance depending on the context.

Maybe FatTony really believes Henry is just as flawed as he is because they're both wrong sometimes. He has no notion that mixing up which attorney speaks English isn't at all equivalent to all the mistakes he makes.

It's gotten to the point where you guys are WAY more interesting than the case for me. I'm sort of interested in what happens down the road with AK, especially if it comes to extradition, but the pro-innocence people fascinate me.

The only problem is that every once in awhile I get perspective and remember that we're talking about the murder of a young woman and I get kind of disgusted with the shills who know exactly what they're doing.

In terms of evaluating an actual case this one doesn't seem super interesting and the element that a lot of the primary material is in Italian makes life hard.

Any idea what their motivation is? Do they have some sort of vested interest in her being acquitted? I just can't fathom why they'd care that much unless there was some sort of ulterior motive.

Yes but why did you write it?

Did you learn new information in the seconds it took you to write the false claim followed by the correction?

I have seen the same lie before multiple times. The shills basically do this non-stop. When they are not posting here they are posting elsewhere so they are just in the habit of making these lies which works fine for them on newspaper comment sections but not on a site like this.

No, thats generally what fascinates me. My guess though is that most of them just aren't bright. I feel like most of the ones posting ITT show the same general pattern of logical failures. And maybe once you believe someone is innocent you feel like the ends justify the means and so its ok to exaggerate parts of your arguments.

To be fair, Henry's behaviour (and other guilters) ITT fascinates me too - but I can at least understand the motivation that they want people to know the truth.

Someone or some people had trashed the crime scene during the 6 week window between when her body was discovered and when the clasp was discovered. The clasp is one place on one day, somewhere totally different 6 weeks later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJiZq3TQh0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMaTI0SiuLw

I've posted this before but you can see them here gift wraping a mop and walking it into the murder room. No guilter has ever been able to explain why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=conjBUiEE9I

Depends on which ones you are talking about.

People like Anne Bremner are just wanna-a-be famous idiots looking to springboard into the spotlight using this case.

Ted Simon is actually on the payroll. He used to think there was evidence against her until he was hired to represent them an no there is no evidence.

Same for Frank the blogger. He is just a grifter who tried to make some money from this case. Again he wrote that she was guilty until he started getting paid to say the opposite.

Then there are a bunch of people who are motivated by racism. Chris Halkides for example falls squarely into this category as do a few others.

The rest are just soccor moms, old men, and a few nerds who are drawn to the case because it makes them feel like they are special. Most of them started off believing she was innocent because they only have access to the bull**** version that the PR firm created. A lot still believe she is but the smarter ones know she is guilty now but they don't seem to care. Like 239 knows she is guilty while I don't believe Fat Tony does.

Henry doesn't want people to know the truth. Are you serious? He's a conspiracy theory loon.

Pretty much. I have no interest to get involved with shill vs guilter bull**** but I know both sides read this topic and as such I feel it is a good way to pass information.

For example, the innocent side has been spreading lies about luminol and no one has argued against them. Steve Moore said a bunch of ******ed **** about Luminol which makes it absolutely clear he has no knowledge of forensics. Chris Halkides who is a chemistry professor at some ****ty university also says a bunch of **** about DNA and Luminol that he should know to be false. This allows me to correct them.

Next time the pro-Knox side say it might have been cleaning products the people who engage them will now be able to reference my well sourced explanation of why it can't be cleaning products.

Truthsayer's digestion argument has also been adopted so now when the shills break out the stupid TOD argument it is dead in the water.

I have no interest in getting involved in this topic beyond the community I was already a member of but since I have the education and time why not. Like I am going to read the 2000+ pages of transcript that Jim acquired for us. I doubt anyone else will. I just see it as a better use of my time than arguing over social or money things with people too young to get it.

FatTony, can we get back to Knox's retraction of her witness statement? A quick summary of the position as I understand it:

Amanda signed a statement claiming that she'd witnessed Lumumba raping and murdering Meredith, afaik she signed this on the 5th? Anyway Lumumba was instantly arrested, and released on the 19th once the police verified his alibi for the night of the murder. (If my dates or details are wrong, someone please correct them.)

FatTony has claimed that Knox formally withdrew her witness statement and made a new statement to police on the 7th. Is this true?

As far as I know -- No.

FatTony is the only time I have heard this said. He claims it is from a book. I have asked him for the page number in that book multiple times and he refuses to respond.

lol

100% pure bile. You're a bitter man henry. Only on a poker forum could an unemployed douchebag from Ottawa smear a university professor and former fbi agent and be delussional enough to think he's smarter.