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View Poll Results: Is Amanda Knox innocent or guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher in Perugia Italy?
There is reasonable doubt here and should be found not guilty. 289 26.18%
She is guilty as can be and should be found guilty. 441 39.95%
She is completely innocent and should be acquitted. 114 10.33%
Undecided 260 23.55%
Voters: 1104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-25-2011, 11:59 PM   #6331
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
Edit: Hell just to make it easy on you, pick the footprint you believe is most likely to be blood and tell me your percent chance that its blood.
I would like to know your thinking on this. If you don't want to answer just say that instead of being a ****ing baby and trying to avoid the question.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:00 AM   #6332
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

And the point of all this is that there isn't any proof that anything they found with luminol other than the Rudy print is actually connected to the murder. And there is no proof any of the luminol hits are blood because luminol is juat a presumptive test.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:02 AM   #6333
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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And the point of all this is that there isn't any proof that anything they found with luminol other than the Rudy print is actually connected to the murder. And there is no proof any of the luminol hits are blood because luminol is juat a presumptive test.
Listen, its a simple question. Henry would probably say 100%, I'd probably say 98%, what would you say?

I mean even if they didn't test it at all, surely there would still be a non-zero chance they were blood.

Edit: It honestly started as a random/curious question, I don't think its a gotcha type question at all. It seems to me very reasonable to ask people in a debate like this how confident they are in their positions.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:06 AM   #6334
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

The one that is obviously blood is blood.

The barefoot prints are negative for DNA and tested negative for blood with TMB. They're also nearby Rudy's shoeprints.

If you want to talk about percentages how likely do you think it is that Raf and Amanda holding Meredith down and helping to knife her to death and then moving her body resulted in no forensic traces. Add to that Guede has his shoeprints and his palmprint on the pillow found beneath her and his footprints are by her bed and go out the door. Add to that many of these luminol hits are in the same hallway he left these bloody prints in.

What perecentage do you give it that AK and RS were able to clean every single footprint and genetic trace in the murder room to the point that luminol was negative for them in the whole room and also able to clean every single bit of DNA from the hallway while cleaning around Guede's shoeprints?
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:09 AM   #6335
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
Listen, its a simple question. Henry would probably say 100%, I'd probably say 98%, what would you say?

I mean even if they didn't test it at all, surely there would still be a non-zero chance they were blood.

Edit: It honestly started as a random/curious question, I don't think its a gotcha type question at all. It seems to me very reasonable to ask people in a debate like this how confident they are in their positions.
It's not a simple question because all of the hits are not equal and tested for different things and were attributable to different people or no one at all like one of the footprints in Amanda's room. What I'm looking for in this case and have been since the very beginning is some type of evidence that you can't argue away that points to their guilt.

This isn't it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:16 AM   #6336
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Also Amanda took a freakin shower there the next morning and walked through that. Consider that if she is innocent there is still a decent chance she could have walked through blood or dilute blood in her travels in the cottage that day.

What I'm looking for is direct evidence they did the deed. Scott Peterson has the motive, opportunity, means, and the circumstantial evidence pointed to him. OJ had cuts on his hands and blood at the scene. The victims' blood was mixed together with his in his car and house. There is that kind of evidence in this case but it all points to Guede.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:24 AM   #6337
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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As regards confirmatory testing, I would strongly suspect (I have a major in Organic Chemistry) that confirmatory testing could not be done on the meagre residue that the luminol picked up. Luminol testing detects the presence of iron as a catalyst so only the tiniest amounts are required. Confirmatory tests need chemical analysis, so you are going to need a reasonable amount of material to work with.
\

Also, one other thing. I don't know the answer to this question honestly. I'm not sure Stefanoni said why they didn't do confirmatory testing. However in the Independent Expert DNA report regarding the knife blade I found this. That was a pretty damn small sample as far as I know. Not sure if that means anything.

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he SAL shows that the generic test for blood was performed on the samples indicated with the letters B-C-E-G (samples taken from the knife blade), using the tetramethylbenzidine test (TMB).
The aforementioned method, widely recognized in forensics, is numbered amongst the preliminary methods for the identification of blood; if positive, further tests (known as ‘confirmatory’) are needed in order to correctly identify blood.
The summary tables of the tests carried out on the samples and the results obtained are reproduced below, as shown on pages 77-78 of the RTIGF:
From the above tables, it is clear that the blood tests carried out on the samples indicated by the letters B-C-E-G (knife blade) were negative for the presence of blood.
The “species-specific” test was performed on the aforementioned samples, and also tested negative for the human species.
ETA for clarity the "species specific" test is the confirmatory test.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:55 AM   #6338
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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By the way, Henry. Despite 239's best efforts rather than because of them, I have to say I'm only maybe 75% convinced of Knox & Sollecito's guilt at the moment.

Here's one issue I have: How come Rudy apparently bailed halfway through taking a ****? It makes perfect sense if he was burgling the place and someone came home midway through. What's the story supposed to be if it was the three of them killed her? They killed Meredith, then he went and took a dump, and halfway through his dump freaked out and jumped up and ran out the door?

Any idea if there was toilet paper in the toilet? If there was, maybe he just didn't flush for whatever reason. If there wasn't, that has to mean something surprised him in the middle of going.
Rudy is a confirmed "non-flusher" and apparently all sides agree to this. There's nothing weird about him not flushing here (by his standards obv) other than him not thinking about the fact that he was leaving evidence behind, but he immediately fled so his opinion was probably already that they'd know it was him. But the fact that he didn't flush is (apparently) not considered odd by either side.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:02 AM   #6339
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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Originally Posted by 239 View Post
If you want to talk about percentages how likely do you think it is that Raf and Amanda holding Meredith down and helping to knife her to death and then moving her body resulted in no forensic traces. Add to that Guede has his shoeprints and his palmprint on the pillow found beneath her and his footprints are by her bed and go out the door. Add to that many of these luminol hits are in the same hallway he left these bloody prints in.

What perecentage do you give it that AK and RS were able to clean every single footprint and genetic trace in the murder room to the point that luminol was negative for them in the whole room and also able to clean every single bit of DNA from the hallway while cleaning around Guede's shoeprints?
I should have known you would only address my question by trying to change the subject. I'll go back to ignoring you then.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:11 AM   #6340
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

Im shocked you dont want to answer meaningless questions like that. I answered your question and gave you more information than younasked for. Youre welcome.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:28 AM   #6341
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

for CENSORED sake 239 hes talking about the prints from amandas room to filo's room. the ones the defense said were juice.

what % do you say they are blood?
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:30 AM   #6342
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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Im shocked you dont want to answer meaningless questions like that. I answered your question and gave you more information than younasked for. Youre welcome.
please answer in a way where we can control-F for "%" and find your answer.

just want to see exactly how deluded you are
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:33 AM   #6343
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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Here's one issue I have: How come Rudy apparently bailed halfway through taking a ****?
Rudy was known to not flush.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:33 AM   #6344
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

who is it that testified/confirmed he doesnt flush? can someone link me to a source if possible?
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:53 AM   #6345
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Re: Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?

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Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
Here's one issue I have: How come Rudy apparently bailed halfway through taking a ****? It makes perfect sense if he was burgling the place and someone came home midway through. What's the story supposed to be if it was the three of them killed her? They killed Meredith, then he went and took a dump, and halfway through his dump freaked out and jumped up and ran out the door?
The dump has to be before the killing. After the killing Rudy's footprints go straight to the door and any scenario where he cleans his feet to walk around and then returns to the body to get them nice and bloody again before freaking out and running out the door are too unbelievable.

We don't know how long Rudy, Amanda, and Raf were in the cottage. The best explanation is that Rudy went to the toilet before anything happened. Rudy's statements have always had an underlying message of I was involved but I never thought she'd end up dead.

The better question is why didn't Amanda flush? The **** had been in that toilet for 12 hours and she admits that she saw it. She knows the girls who use that bathroom will not be home for another day and a half at least but she proceeds to do her hair in the bathroom and not flush. I have no experience but I'd expect the bathroom would start to be unpleasant smelling at this point so why not flush?

Quote:
Any idea if there was toilet paper in the toilet? If there was, maybe he just didn't flush for whatever reason. If there wasn't, that has to mean something surprised him in the middle of going.
His DNA was on the toilet paper so I have no go with he cleaned himself although no pictures of the actual inside of the toilet are available.
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