Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? - Page 4 - Other Topics Forum - Discuss Pop Culture, Arts and Entertainment

cpitt398 · 12-03-2009, 11:05 PM

I read the stuff about the phones on that truejustice site. Im assuming your phone stays in constant contact with a tower so they can trace when it is off or on.

Im like you the only time my phone is off is when I cant find it and the battery ran out (which is often), so I find it really odd that both of theirs were off and on at the same time. With that said I dont get a lot of calls so if people say that they turn it off at night or when they dont want to be bugged, who am i to argue.

About the motives:

I understand why prosecutors want a motive but I think you can shoot yourself in the foot making one up if you don't have one. I, too, think the motives they have presented seem kinda random and are probably hurting them when it comes to public opinion. I still haven't figured out how they came up with the sex game one. It seems somewhat slanderous.

Ra_Z_Boy · 12-03-2009, 11:06 PM

One bizarre thing is the third guy has already been found guilty of murder in a completely seperate trial.

From what I can gather from reading the papers it seems there is some seriously suspicious **** here but I don't know if that means guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Ie I think she probably did it but would find her not guilty.

yimyammer · 12-03-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yimyammer

Does anyone know what the standard for concluding guilt is in Italy (ex: beyond a reasonable doubt in the USA)?

Found the answer:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index....illers_weapon/

Do jurors have to find Knox guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?
Yes. The concept of proof beyond a reasonable doubt has long been a part of Italy’s justice system. It was formalized and passed into law in 2006.

Knox’s defense lawyer Luciano Ghirga said his team will remind jurors that, even after more than 40 hearings, everything is still in doubt.
The court’s ruling (which is not called a verdict in Italy) is made by an eight-member jury: six laymen and two professional judges. They will vote, and the majority rules. In the case of a 4-4 tie, acquittal overrules.

Majority rules is a much lighter standard than in the US. I think she's in deep pucky

Ra_Z_Boy · 12-03-2009, 11:16 PM

Lol Italians. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt introduced in 2006. Defendants expected to lie....

neuroman · 12-03-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yimyammer

The court’s ruling (which is not called a verdict in Italy) is made by an eight-member jury: six laymen and two professional judges. They will vote, and the majority rules. In the case of a 4-4 tie, acquittal overrules.

Wow, so a 5-3 majority puts you in the slammer? That's completely ****ed up. Good thing it's Italy though, so you'll only go to jail for like 18 years when you commit murder and then be out on the streets in 8 or 10.

NYTyler · 12-03-2009, 11:31 PM

I want to point out something for those talking about bleach and cleaning products that Amanda Knox bought the day after the crime.

The knife that is alleged by the prosecution had trace amounts of DNA on it (found at Amanda's boyfriend and co-defendant's house, Rafael Sollecito). The handle had Amanda's DNA on it and the blade had Meredith Kercher's (victim) DNA on it. The prosecution experts peformed tests with chemicals for the presence of blood and turned up no trace of blood on the knife. Then they did a DNA test which they found trace amounts. The test for blood is more sensitive than that of testing for DNA so they know since no trace of blood was found that the DNA found can not be blood. Now the amount of DNA found was so small that were talking about like 20 cells, which is a minute amount. On top of that, this knife doesn't match the wounds found on the victim, Meredith Kercher. Nor does the knife match a supposed imprint of the knife left on the bed at the murder scene.

If you know that there is no blood on the knife you can make a reasonable assumption that it isn't the murder weapon yet it could not have been cleaned because there is still DNA on it. And how the hell would Amanda Knox be able to clean her DNA from the crime scene but not Rudy Guede's? In the end I don't think it is so suspicious that she was buying cleaning products. But who knows.

I think the prosecution's assertions are ridiculous that Amanda, Rafael and Rudy Guede all committed this crime together. This sounds more like the work of one individual - Rudy Guede.

vixticator · 12-03-2009, 11:37 PM

I can't imagine the justice system in Saudi Arabia is any worse than Italy from what I've heard itt and elsewhere. I mean regardless of this chick the system is a joke.

suzzer99 · 12-03-2009, 11:38 PM

I thought you were going to point out something about the cleaning supplies? Is it possible they cleaned the knife so well it showed no blood but a few pieces of DNA were left behind?

NYTyler · 12-03-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

I thought you were going to point out something about the cleaning supplies? Is it possible they cleaned the knife so well it showed no blood but a few pieces of DNA were left behind?

No because the test for blood is more sensitive than the test for DNA so they know the DNA is not blood. It is from some other source. Some experts think this was the result of laboratory contamination.

suzzer99 · 12-03-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYTyler

No because the test for blood is more sensitive than the test for DNA so they know the DNA is not blood. It is from some other source. Some experts think this was the result of laboratory contamination.

Are they saying it might be skin?

Also you don't find it odd that a crazy late night party girl who at first says she was at her boyfriend's all night - then changes her story when caught in the lie to say she was out the apt at the time of the murders - also happened to be at a store at 7:45am looking at cleaning supplies?

Also there's the evidence of the broken glass being over all the disarrayed clothes. Like it was broken from the outside after everything happened in order to make it look like a break in.

According the the guy she falsely accused, she was pretty pissed at him and Meredith (the roommate) because he had fired her for being too flirtatious with customers, then hired Meredith. So we know she was able to commit a fairly devious and gravely serious crime of falsely accusing him. It's not that gigantic of a stretch that she could have committed a gravely serious crime against someone else she had a giant beef with - her roommate - and done some devious things to cover that up.

Also do we know the origin of this whole sex-torture story? It has to be coming from Guerde right? There's no way the cops could just be speculating that.

Btw I'm still kind of in doubt. I just really don't like the whole false accusation thing. Innocent people just don't do that as far as I know.

FrankieBigNuts · 12-03-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yimyammer

After watching the 48 hours show, I don’t see any reliable evidence to justify convicting Amanda or her Boyfriend.

The biggest problem I have is that Rudy Guede (a known criminal in the area whom no association between Knox and her boyfriend can be established) was convicted of the murder.

Additionally, he fled to Germany the next day but was eventually tracked down. He admitted to having sex with the victim but said someone came in and killed her while he was in the bathroom but it wasn’t him. He never brought up Amanda or her boyfriend. However, after hours of interrogation, he said they all three committed the murder in some kind of sex/murder scenario.

A forensic expert at testified at the trial of Rudy Guede that the victim was stabbed by a single person (not sure how you prove this).

Rudy Guede was the only suspect whose DNA and fingerprints were found on the body.

Rudy Guede is the only suspect who had a criminal past and the only one who fled the country.

According to a private investigator,, there were no records of cell phone calls or text messages between Rudy, Amanda and her boyfriend, yet he and the prosecution claims the entire murder was planned In advance by all three parties and all 3 parties had a long standing relationship.

The victim was stabbed over 40 times and I have not seen any DNA evidence or blood evidence presented that tie the murder to Amanda or her Boyfriend. I believe it’s extremely difficult to participate in a crime this bloody but clean up so thoroughly that only small amounts of DNA are found under questionable circumstances.

To my knowledge, both defendants have repeatedly and adamantly denied any involvement.

The prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, is purported to be a radical conspiracy theorist (great qualifications for a prosecutor) He had an American reporter jailed who was doing research for a book about a serial killer in Italy after deciding the reporter was the murderer – see http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/131443.asp He is also under indicted for abuse of office and accused of obstruction of justice & illegally wire tapping journalist but still allowed to try the case.

Here’s a link to some of the purported facts regarding the case.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/206682

I’m sure there is a lot more we haven’t heard about, but if this is all they have, then I think a conviction would be ridiculous.

Having said that, it appears this case has been tried in the press and I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on the jurors and two judges deciding this case to convict. I also wonder how the predominately catholic society will influence how the evidence or lack thereof will be interpreted.

Therefore, I predict a guilty verdict

^this

i remember watching the show also and being outraged that she is even being held. ridonkulous.

is was the black dude from africa that did it right? should be open and shut case.

NYTyler · 12-03-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Is it possible they cleaned the knife well enough to where they could see no trace of blood, but still left some DNA by the tip? Would help explain Knox's DNA on his knife if she was doing the cleaning.

You don't find it odd that a crazy late night party girl who at first says she was at her boyfriend's all night - then changes her story when caught in the lie to say she was out the apt at the time of the murders - also happened to be at a store at 7:45am looking at cleaning supplies?

I do think this odd. But I also think it can be a confused statement or a statement made under duress. Confessions have to amount to irrefutable physical evidence. And the forensics in this case is so shady it's really hard to verify anything in this crime. I think it very possible that she gave a false confession. If she had not said anything to the Italian authorities to begin with, she might not be sitting where she is right now.

As far as buying cleaning supplies it looks a lot less suspicous when you look at the alleged murder weapon and the tests they perfomed on it. Also, how the hell would they clean up their own DNA from the crime scene but still leave massive amounts of DNA of the guy already convicted of the crime, Rudy Guede.

The prosecution's theory that this was a sex game gone wrong or a hateful revenge crime between rivals doesn't really hold water. It makes much more sense that someone with a criminal record, Rudy Guede, burglarized the place and killed the victim in comission of a felony. That motive makes much more sense and there isn't much proof to support the prosection's motive in regards to Amanda and Rafael. It just doesn't hold water imo.

suzzer99 · 12-03-2009, 11:51 PM

Dammit stop catching my posts before ninja edit.

morello · 12-04-2009, 01:46 AM

There is a lot of weird stuff going on, but based on what I've read I'd have a hard time convicting. There's a chance they did it, but too many holes to convict if reasonable doubt is the criteria.

yimyammer · 12-04-2009, 02:23 AM

I've spent most of tonight reading all about this case and its really suspicious why Amanda and her boyfriend have so many conflicting alibis.

On the other hand, the conclusion seems to be that they were grand conspirators who tricked this Rudy guy into being at the house so he could be the patsy.

How did they meet Rudy? What made them think they could trick this guy into coming to the house & pull off a murder?

It just doesn't make sense to me how Rudy gets pulled into their grand plan which they apparently decided to be implement only when Amanda found out via text that she didn't have to work that night.

How did they get Rudy to the house on short notice when he may not have even had a phone and there were no record on Amandas or her boyfriends phones that they had attempted to contact Rudy.

Plus Amanda and her "boyfriend" had only been seeing each other for 2 weeks.

When I was 20, I was all hormones and the last thing I'm thinking about after meeting a woman I'm hooking up with is how I can kill her room mate.

The whole thing is just odd as hell and nothing makes any sense to me other than this Rudy guy did it on his own.

However, there is apparently a lot of DNA evidence that implicates Amanda and her BF.

Viscious circle of confusion.