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Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?
View Poll Results: Is Amanda Knox innocent or guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher in Perugia Italy?
There is reasonable doubt here and should be found not guilty.
381 26.89%
She is guilty as can be and should be found guilty.
550 38.81%
She is completely innocent and should be acquitted.
168 11.86%
Undecided
318 22.44%

08-11-2021 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense
Seems odd to blame Knox for her boyfriend: possibly being present, and lying to investigators.

How precisely is that her fault? If they boyfriend helped murder then she did also? Seems like an odd thing to say when accusing someone of this horrendous crime.

Obviously, I don't know exactly what happened but throwing together a laundry list of accusations about her bf is not evidence of her guilt.

It's also not surprising that an 18-yr old when accused of a crime you didn't commit [let's stipulate for purposes of this post] might not be 100% honest with foreign police/prosecutors who seem more interested in railroading you as part of a 'sex game gone wrong' international news event. Teenagers lie about everything, all the time, about way less important stuff.
You're not paying attention. The court did not blame Knox for her boyfriend being present. They noted that according to the evidence Knox was 'certainly' present during the murder, and they noted that her boyfriend was also present that evening, but at a time they claimed was not determined. They found that both Knox and her boyfriend lied to investigators and gave a 'failed alibi', and they found that Knox in particular lied about Patrick Lumumba in order to protect Rudy Guede, who is also black, in case any witness had seen Guede at or near the house that night, because -- the court found -- she knew that Guede, if detected and questioned by police, could retaliate by incriminating Knox herself, because she was certainly there.

Prosecutors never said anything about a 'sex game gone wrong'. That was invented by Knox's PR agent and slavishly repeated by the US media who for the most part couldn't be bothered to do any actual research or reporting for themselves.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-12-2021 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yimyammer
I'm not going down this black hole again, virtually every question/issue has been debated to death from both sides which you'll see if you're willing to trudge through this thread but something else to consider is she wasn't fluent in Italian so the language barrier was a legit issue to overcome, its hard enough to have good understanding and communication when people speak the same language, this was no doubt exacerbated in this context; (there's a good chance someone will show up here shortly trying to convince us her mastery of the Italian language surpassed even native born Italians but that's the nature of this topic as you will see should you decide to dive in).
yeah this was one of those issues already debated. And nobody is saying she was fluent. But that said Knox spoke Italian wrote Italian in her diary, by her own admission communicated with Sollecito in Italian and German, insisted on speaking Italian to the flatmates and worked in an Italian speaking environment, but now she suddenly loses her Italian? Please.

Furthermore she was provided with two interpreters, just in case her Italian was still a bit rusty. The endless excuses provided for Knox are ridiculous. As is the endless rehashing of already covered and debunked points. It amounts to gaslighting which is the only way one can make an innocence narrative for Knox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllInNTheDark
on the edge of a reasonable doubt?

one could believe the accused was guilty, but as a juror vote not guilty... that's reasonable
Yet again Knox was acquitted by a non jury court which violated its own procedure to acquit. That's what it took to let her walk. Anyone who claims she's innocent is either woefully unaware of the facts of the case, extraordinarily obtuse, or a flat out murderer groupie. Anyone who claims BARD quite frankly doesn't understand the concept of the term.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-12-2021 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile
Yet again Knox was acquitted by a non jury court which violated its own procedure to acquit. That's what it took to let her walk. Anyone who claims she's innocent is either woefully unaware of the facts of the case, extraordinarily obtuse, or a flat out murderer groupie. Anyone who claims BARD quite frankly doesn't understand the concept of the term.
I meant generally. Knox is guilty as sin.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-12-2021 , 07:46 PM
lol, like flies to $hit
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-13-2021 , 05:38 AM
This is why I had you on ignore, you're about one rung up from a troll and you've contributed nothing of value to this thread. Back on ig you go bye now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllInNTheDark
I meant generally. Knox is guilty as sin.
Fair enough
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-13-2021 , 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpus vile
This is why I had you on ignore, you're about one rung up from a troll and you've contributed nothing of value to this thread. Back on ig you go bye now.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-21-2021 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yimyammer
I'm not going down this black hole again, virtually every question/issue has been debated to death from both sides which you'll see
No one's asking you to 'black hole' anything but if you're trying to convince normies who don't know all of the facts {I read the whole thread years ago} then you should leave out of 'the debate' irrelevant accusations that have nothing to do with her being guilty of murder [or not].

Saying she lied to investigators isn't proof of anything, much less murder. That should be patently obvious to anyone with a working brain. Same for her boyfriend being present at the murder [or not].

Throwing someone else under the bus is a really bad look for her, but again, not proof of her being a murderer, nor even evidence of any kind. That's not up for debate.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-21-2021 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
The Italian Supreme Court, in their final report, found that Knox was 'certainly' present during the murder, that she washed the victim's blood off her hands in their shared bathroom afterwards...

So there's that.
Yes, but those are merely assertions not facts. Something doesn't become true because a court stipulates that it is.

How many US courts have said 'X is true, X is guilty' while other courts have come to the exact opposite conclusion. A million times?

Claus Von Bulow was convicted of murdering his wife with insulin, further investigation and appeal showed that it definitively could not have happened that way and that he was railroaded with faked evidence obtained by [some of] his kids' PI. Even the Harvard expert who testified for the prosecution recanted his own testimony during the appeal.

I have no strong opinion on this either way but some of these assertions you keep promoting aren't remotely 'facts.' They're simply opinions.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-24-2021 , 01:36 PM
By the same rationale Knox's dubious acquittal is simply opinion as is Guede's conviction. Courts sort these things out, it's why they're called "established" facts. This has already been done itt and opinions on guilt are based on the evidence, whereas opinions on innocence probably stem from hybristophilia, ultimately.

But again these things were already covered and your rehashing is pointless.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-24-2021 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense
Yes, but those are merely assertions not facts. Something doesn't become true because a court stipulates that it is.
No, they are not merely assertions, they are facts in law, and they are based on the factual evidence provided to the lower courts and found indisputable by the supreme court. Indisputable to the point that it could not possibly be otherwise in light of the established physical facts. In that light, the supreme court determined that Knox was present during the murder and washed the victim's blood off her hands, that her boyfriend was also present that evening, that Guede could not have committed the murder alone because that could not explain the full range of physical evidence, that the break-in was faked and could only have been faked by Knox, the only householder with no alibi, that Knox and Sollecito lied to investigators and that Knox deliberately blamed an innocent black man to protect Guede, because she believed witnesses might have seen Guede and knew that Guede could incriminate her if questioned.

Last edited by 57 On Red; 08-24-2021 at 02:11 PM.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-27-2021 , 03:57 AM
i've lurked this thread since inception. read every post.

I am still unsure but the one thing I was always confused about was the footprints, where there or weren't there more footprints coming from the room down the hallway.

I know henry really liked the eyewitness accounts (that are all over to be frank), the false testimony placing guede there as well as the erratic behavior and most importantly to him, the blood on knife.

but these things weren't as hammered in as I thought they should've been. the thing I looked at was the footprints, I think the knife had trace amounts of amandas blood iirc so that was the 2nd smoking gun, I felt the footprints, to me, were the bigger deal and my personal smoking gun if it was true there were 3 sets of diff footprints that I remember reading and seeing about. the alibi is still in question tho however that laptop turning on at 5 am could have been them or random.


I still don't know wtf happened, I need to read up if the court really did think she was present and why they think so. a lot of factors can go for and against her, her behavior and lies (pinning it on the old boss at first) was just weird.

maybe one day we can find the truth

Last edited by the pleasure; 08-27-2021 at 04:04 AM.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-27-2021 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the pleasure
the alibi is still in question tho however that laptop turning on at 5 am could have been them or random.
Couldn't have been random. Sollecito's own defence expert discovered that the MacBook had been turned on and used to play a number of frankly Seattle-centred songs on iTunes, including lyrics like 'I killed you, I'm not gonna crack' ('Lithium', Nirvana), at an unearthly hour when Knox and Sollecito claimed to have been asleep but obviously were not. They never attempted to explain this, because of course they'd been up all night doing the staging and cleaning and didn't want to talk about it. But a more competent police and prosecution team would have nailed them to the floor.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-29-2021 , 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
Couldn't have been random. Sollecito's own defence expert discovered that the MacBook had been turned on and used to play a number of frankly Seattle-centred songs on iTunes, including lyrics like 'I killed you, I'm not gonna crack' ('Lithium', Nirvana), at an unearthly hour when Knox and Sollecito claimed to have been asleep but obviously were not. They never attempted to explain this, because of course they'd been up all night doing the staging and cleaning and didn't want to talk about it. But a more competent police and prosecution team would have nailed them to the floor.
damn if true. this is the first I heard of this atfer thousands of pages in this thread
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-29-2021 , 02:29 PM
I used to have an annotated copy of the iTunes playlist, but I've lost it now. Anyway, Sollecito's defence expert Professor Alfredo Milani revealed that the MacBook Pro was started at 5.32, had the odd crash trying to play music from another site and then, from 5.44, started playing music on iTunes, beginning with the Dust Brothers' instrumental 'Stealing Fat', the theme from the movie Fight Club. It's quite bangy and clashy and an odd thing to listen to at quarter to six in the morning if you're in any kind of normal frame of mind.



Remainder of playlist, as reproduced in British lawyer James Raper's e-book Justice on Trial:-


Song Start Time according End Time
to Encase according to
ITunes

Stealing Fat. mp3 5:44:45
Breed.mp3 5:46:11 05:49:15
Come as you are.mpg 5:49:12 05:52:54
In bloom.mpg 5:52:51 05:57:09
Lithium.mpg 5:57:06 06:01:26
Polly.mp3 6:06:24
Smells like teen spirit.mp3 6:06:24 06:06:27
It's my life.mp3 6:06:39
Prelude.mp3 6:06:41
Songbird.mp3 6:06:42 06:08:52
Little by Little.mp3 6:11:51 06:13:45
Don’t look back in anger.mp3 6:13:42 06:18:09

There seems to have been a lot of agitated starting-and-stopping. It was probably Knox who commanded the playlist, because she's known to have liked Nirvana and Brit band Oasis ('Don't Look Back In Anger'). Some of the lyrics are of interest, notably the chorus of 'Lithium' with its refrain, 'I killed you, I won't crack.' And curiously, Knox started Nirvana's 'Polly' and then immediately skipped it. 'Polly' is apparently based on the true story of the abduction, torture and rape of a 14-year-old girl, for which the perpetrator was then still in custody.

At trial, Knox and Sollecito both claimed they were asleep all night and didn't get up till 10.30am. They were obviously lying, according to the computer evidence of Sollecito's own defence expert, and that lie is obviously very significant in the circumstances, but the court never held them to account for it.

James Raper's highly informative book is still available on Kindle, if you have one of those.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Justice-Tri.../dp/B01JB6XMDA

Last edited by 57 On Red; 08-29-2021 at 02:43 PM.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
08-29-2021 , 03:06 PM
Dupe

Last edited by 57 On Red; 08-29-2021 at 03:13 PM.
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote
11-24-2021 , 05:50 PM
I read that both knox and rafas phone within around that 90 day period of the night or so was only shut off once..an that just so happened to be the night it happened. is there any truth to that?

you could easily swing evidence for either side with how police mishandled the evidence and a lot of information that has been inconsistent
Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer? Quote

      
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