Henry you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Amanda never admitted being in the room and Raffaele's DNA was not found on Meredith. What's the point of rebutting the rest. You're wrong about all that to.

well if she never admitted to it, then it never happened.

done and done!

It's more an indication of how little Henry knows if he can't get basic factoids correct after five years.

She just admitted to putting her hands over her ears to block out the screams while Meredith was killed. Do you deny she said this?

And then falsely claimed a totally innocent third party (her boss) was the murderer, getting him arrested. Do you deny she did this?

She's a sweetheart, that Amanda. I can see why you pop up tag-team-style on this forum to defend her, for no personal gain at all.

There's a difference between admitting being in the murder room and admitting to being in the kitchen just like there's a difference saying Raffaele's DNA was on Meredith compared to being found on the hook of a bra clasp that had 3-4 other male profiles on it.

The cops should have thought a bit more carefully before running off to arrest Patrick at 6am based on the words of a 20 year old girl who gave statements without a lawyer present and offered up no real infomation pertaining to the crime. They had multiple sets of detectives questioning her, they get an admission from her that she is a key witness to the murder yet they get no infomation about the crime itself. How stupid are the cops? Either they're stupid or they scared the crap out of her into giving up the name they wanted and then destroyed the interrogation tapes. You decide....

My main interest is not defending either of them, it's a curiousity about the two hate sites and the bizzare fantacy of a female sex killer they believe in like it's a religion. These sites aren't new or unique to this particular case, it's normal in high profile cases to attract some pretty weird people who hold extreme or perverted views. Jon Benet Ramsey and Scott Peterson are good examples of other cases crazy people latched onto.

You can see on the PMF's people like the mentally ill Dr Mull who spends every waking moment cyber stalking people, looking at crime scene photos, hating on people. Stilicho is another crank who posts around the clock and is totally obsessed with Amanda Knox. Then you have Ergon who's more funny than a nutcase even though he thinks he's Jesus. Ganong who counts shrubs, Quennell a stalker who had the police called on him. The list goes on.

I agree with the differences. Still odd as hell though.
You seem really involved in this. I've done a reasonable amount of reading about this case in the past couple of weeks and have no idea who any of these people are.

I can't imagine why anyone would get so interested. I come here for the investing forum, I think this is the best forum on the internet for all kinds of analysis and have an interest in this place not getting overrun by shills or spammers. Henry, Oski, lots of others have been around for ages and likely have the same motivation. And the case is interesting for sure.

But what's your angle? I've never seen anyone uninvolved traveling around the internet defending an acquitted, freed murder suspect from people who think she did it. That's just...bizarre...unless you're involved somehow.

Add to that the fact that we know the Knox family have pushed a major and unrelenting PR campaign with the stated goal of turning public opinion:

And we're to believe that this massive PR push isn't active in one of the biggest threads on one of the biggest forums on the internet. And that the few shills who come here - who only post in this thread - are not 239, or you, or any of the other low post count, strident Knox defenders who pop up. If the PR shills aren't you guys, who are they, then?

LOL so now it's the PR Supertanker conspiracy. You people are lunatics..... I mean it's just incredible what you'll believe. I'd never heard of this forum before someone posted it on another forum two days ago. This thread might be 584 pages long but there's only 15 posts per page so about 8800 posts all up which is small compared to JREF with 100,000+

Neither of the pro guilt forums allow free and open discussion. You get banned with a thanks for stoping by. Michael the little bully tried having a Tuesday only but was such an ******* with the rules people stopped going. If you join his forum, ask him where the bleech receipts are

yep, has been for a while.

yep, have been for a while.

yep, most people don't understand much.

I don't doubt that in a way.

I don't doubt you believe that either.

No one has been banned from this discussion afaik.

When I joined here, I only had a brief look back through a few pages on the thread. I just spent a bit more time reading back.

I see there's quite a few people interested in this case and asking questions. Here is a little bit of background infomation that might interest people. One of the main posters in this thread here is a prolific poster from one of the three Knox hate sites. Infact, he's got tens of thousands of posts about Amanda all over the internet on various forums. He's a misogynist. I won't name him but he knows who he is.

Two of the hate sites are forums and one is a normal website where amatuer bloggers have posted disinfomation about the case for over four years now. That site is run by a stalker and the comments below each article are appalling.

Here is a parody site of the two hate forums who believe it or not use to be one forum but split after certain members ended up hating each other. lol. no supprises there.

www.perugiamurderfile.com

Here is an article about the hate campaign they've waged for nearly 5 years against Amanda Knox and her family.

http://injusticeinperugia.blogspot.c...n-against.html

At the peak in 2010-2011, the group had a few hundred members who would follow the case everyday but now the group is down to 15-20 fanatics obsessed with Amanda. Most left as they realised the case against Amanda and Raffaele was total BS. Some admitted they were wrong and others were to embarassed and just stopped posting when they realised. The members of the forums activately stalk people who support Amanda and Raffaele and even post photos of children and mock peoples looks and how they dress or where they live. They've collected literally thousands of photographs of her and her family. They troll facebook accounts looking for photographs of her supporters and then post them on the forum. It's toally creepy.

If your interested in the real truth about how bogus the prosecutions case was and all the screw ups the police made then http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/ is the website to read. There's also a forum that has all the court documents if you click the link from that page.

Right because it is perfectly normal to find the DNA of someone not involved on the bra clasp of a dead girl.

Amanda had already revealed that she was involved by the fact that she told Meredith's friends information about the murder that only someone who was there would know.

Raffaele is asked to come to the police station and Amanda comes alone. The police let them sit in the bugged waiting room for a bit and they instantly start discussing a third person in code.

Raffaele goes off to get questioned and he tells them everything he said before was a lie. That Amanda asked him to lie. That the truth is she went out by herself.

Amanda then admits to being there. During her confession she reveals that Meredith was raped something that had not been officially released yet. She reveals that there was a single scream which matches what a witness said. She places herself in a public place where a witness saw her that night.

Given all this and the text message communication why wouldn't they believe her?

This was asked of you before and you ignored the question-- I suspect intentionally-- so I'll ask again. How long did they question Amanda before she confessed to being there?

There were no tapes.

While you are correct that every case draws a guilt vs innocence crowd I think the calibre of the camp is itself an important sign.

Looking at people who defend Amanda.

Bruce Fisher -- multiple bankruptcies, changed his name to avoid creditors, had to live with his mom at 40, got fired from working at a fur store because of his use of the store computer.

Steve Moore -- claims to be an FBI agent who worked on anti-terrorism but we find him working as university security at some small school -- gets fired. Claims to have testified at 9-11 inquiry but his name is not on the official witness list. Seems to know absolutely nothing about criminal investigations. Gets caught in a bunch of lies.

Frank -- Failed loser who is on his 3rd try at a scheme to make money off blogging. Beats his mom and sister. Comes to Canada and assaults a 71 year old man. Gets removed from the country so goes to the US where he assaults a women. Starts maintaining Amanda's is innocent at the same times starts asking for money from the ******s who believe this. Cons you guys out of a decent amount of money. The group supports Frank and ostracizes the members who say he assaulted them despite the consistent pattern.

The general level of discourse. Just read the posts the people who claim she is innocent and those who argue for guilt. The intellectual gap is fairly obvious.

Or you can skip all the bull**** and the admitted extensive PR efforts of the Knox family and just read the Massei report - the actual judgement of the judge involved in the case: Massei Report (pdf)

Finally, you can just apply a common sense test. I assume the parents of the victim are completely normal, nice people (please tell me if you disagree, Tony), and they believed that Amanda did it. Their experts concurred with the prosecution in the case, and they ran up substantial bills paying for these experts independently and having them testify as civil participants. The bill was 260,000 euros according to the Massei report.

Why would they do this? Wouldn't they have greater familiarity with the facts and evidence in the case, and greater incentive to seek the truth about their daughter's death, than anyone? Certainly greater than you, who claim to be uninvolved with the coordinated Knox PR effort.

So you have the victim's parents, vs a large PR effort on the part of Knox and a PR firm they hired, whose admitted intention is to change public opinion of Knox. Hmmm. Who to believe??

A site that is full of lies is what you put up as a place people can go for information?

If people want information on this case they should go to the original court materials. Nothing else is really acceptable.

It's normal in wrongful convictions for the victims family to continue to believe in guilt. I could site many cases including ones where the prosecutor have told the family the person you thought did it, didn't do it. It's very sad how many lives are ruined when these clusterfuks occur.

The Kerchers will probably cling to guilt for a long time to come. Admitting otherwise means they wasted a small fortune on their lawyer and accepting what Guede really did to their daughter.

There is no lies Henry. The lies are from you Henry. Only one error has ever been found on IIP and that was regarding how the Supreme Court ruled regarding Amanda's statements during the interrorgation.

This is straight out of a prepared talking point, isn't it?

Why should we believe what you say, an anonymous poster on the internet who just arrived to this thread and has nothing to do with the rest of the forum, in the background of a massive Knox family PR effort to make Amanda look innocent.

You have no credibility whatsoever. This just proves it:

I'm sorry but this just isn't possible. You've proven you're a liar beyond with that one statement. Even the most reliable sites have a number of errors and they come up over time. It's just the nature of dealing with lots of information.

And in a charged case like this one there will be a number of lies or admissions, especially when the family of the accused hires a PR firm to run a massive PR effort to change the public's opinion of the case:

Henry your the master of throwing out a whole heap of lies and then expect someone to rebutt it all. When the person does and shows you're wrong, you ignore and move onto the next bit of garbage you can throw out.

I showed two basic things you were mistaken about and you quickly move onto the next. This has been going on for years. It's just a case of ignore the facts and keep spewing out the lies soon as you've been shown to be wrong.

You said Amanda admitted being in the room. She didn't.

You said Raffaele's DNA was on Meredith. It wasn't. When it was discovered on the hook of a bra clasp that had moved across the room over six weeks with 3-4 other male profiles on it. Most people go WTF, how did that happen? But not you Henry......

I will say this about Bruce, he dropped a letter from his surname out of fear of the hate group you belong to. He has a wife and young kids and was right to be concerned when he started advocating on behalf of Amanda and Raffaele. As soon as your hate group found out his real name, his home and work address were posted online and soon afterwards a member of pmf admitted driving past his house and describing it to other members of the group. His photos were posted on the forum and discussed at length. The moderator of the hate group talked about him everyday for a year with an avatar saying "where is Bruce". That's really disturbing behaviour but what do expect from people who have stalked Amanda's family and driven past her family home giving reports back to the group. People who have posted the hotel name supporters have stayed out. People who have driven to the university a supporter works at.

Members of the group have targeted the daughter of an ex FBI agent and a judge from Seattle.

Let me address the tapes. You say there were no tapes even though they were required by law. Mignini admitted everyone else was recorded but they had budget problems to record them for Amanda and Raffaele. Plzzz

Look at the case of Anthony Graves, 18 years on death row. The best prosector in Texas told the victims family he didn't do it and couldn't re prosecute the case but they didn't believe her and said he was guilty when he clearly wasn't.

Do you want me to list others where victims familes can't come to terms with the wrongful conviction of the people or person they thought murdered their loved ones?

Michael Mortons son took months to accept his dad was innocent of killing his mother after DNA cleared him of the murder.

lol, talking points at the ready. Good job. The Graves case didn't involve intelligent middle class people like Kercher's family who spent 260,000 Euros on their own experts. None of these guys had their own experts look at the evidence and participate in the trial. They only had what the prosecutor told them. So of course they'd be confused. The US system doesn't work like Italy.

And this isn't a case that hung on a confession. There were dozens of independent pieces of evidence that make no sense without guilt, and the Kerchers saw them all, in detail, and had their own experts go over them at great cost (260,000 euros). They were there, saw it all, and concluded she was guilty.

Compared to that, you have people coming in this thread, shills like you and 239 who only post here, who claim that there is no evidence or combination of evidence that even makes it even probable, let alone beyond a reasonable doubt, that she did it. That's just amazing, man.

Apart from that, do you have anything to say about your lie that only one error has been found on the site you like and linked to, something that isn't even possible?

Do you have any comment at all about the Knox's massive PR campaign to make Amanda look innocent?

Can you please expand on Henry's role in his hate group?

FatTony, are you saying that a poster in this specific thread is a mass poster on PMF or TJMK? At the end of they day I have never had an interest in the forum wars regarding this topic between JREF, the various innocence forums, and the guilt sites. But if it turned out someone here was an epic guilter, that would be pretty amusing.

There was no PR supertanker conspiracy. They hired a small firm after the arrest because their phones were ringing off the hook from the worlds media. The firm organised interviews and media appearences. There's nothing out of the ordinary about that given it was such a high profile case and the family didn't know what to do under the circumstances. If it was your daughter, would you rather the media calling your phone non stop or calling your rep for comment or interview? I'd want someone else handling it vs taking phone calls at all hours. But that's just me.... other people might do it differently.

260.000 euros?????????? What?????? Where do you get this stuff from?

John Kercher in one of his nicely timed tabloid articles after the 1st trial said it had cost the family 40,000 pounds in expenses to date.

I'm actually going to have to agree with 239 here. Please out this person with XX,000 posts who goes around cyberstalking people who disagree with him.

He knows who he is. He's on websleuths and pmf and tjmk posting everyday for years. He left JREF feeling insecure because they laughed him off and then he went and lobbied for the thread to be shut down lol. That didn't work out to well

iirc he was also part of the wiki article manipulation.

which poster?