The current SNG climate is a tough one. Being one of the top winners at mid-high stakes (to the extent that higher games even run now) clearly requires skills that extend beyond the focus of this book, such as a deep understanding of post-flop play. I think Greg would be the first to acknowledge this.

For a beginning or intermediate player though, a resource that breaks down all the basics in a clear and well-written way can be invaluable. Learning basic strategies for post-flop play, how to approach the push/fold segment of the game, make the right bubble adjustments, etc. This is what the course is designed to accomplish, and I believe succeeds at very well.

Also while it’s easy to block your stats (and plenty of coaches do that), Greg has always been completely upfront about his play history. He’s a full-time engineer/researcher who has gone out of his way to find time to play and coach. I think having a 5% ROI in 9-mans is pretty solid, particularly when a lot of those games are super-turbo where edges are much thinner.

Wp sir

Collin nice to see you posting in the thread.

The current SNG climate is a tough one Collin. When your book came out you could be a very profitable player playing SNG's.

Unless you travel to the WSOP and become a satty specialist I question any US based player being able to play sng's as more than a hobby. Unless you are a non-us based player I question the investment in this book.

Zero says he is done talking pricing, but the problem is it's very difficult for US-based players to play SNG's profitably since Black Friday.

He is charging a significant amount of money for the book. I can appreciate the time and effort that went into the project including recording the videos. I think the combination of the price, with a relatively unknown author makes me question the investment in the book.

I mentioned Blackrain before. His book is gotten excellent reviews here. Here's the thing, at 20 bucks a US-based player can take a flyer on the book and earn the money back quickly. But, if you're US-based to make a large enough online deposit to make the investment in this book worthwhile playing sng's it is definitely is a risk that you will never see your money again.

As you well know, many of us are owed significant money from Fulltilt. I will not just deposit on merge; for example, knowing that I will probably never see the money again. Add the friction of the cost of this book for example you're making a large investment into something that is like subscribing to a game like Farmville and buying the special vegetable. I bet you could crush play money sng's using this system. Great but that brings the hundred dollar list price and $69 introductory special into question here.

Collin your book and video's on Stox were some of the best SNG information I had exposer to. It fascinates me the criticism your book takes from time to time on this board. Only Sheets sng stuff on PXF was as good. I am curious your reaction to this post in 2012 not the 2008 poker world.

I don't know if you play sngs much these days but the $15s on PS are quite tough. Greg's standard is ok for the $7 games. Your own book seems to cover the areas you mention.

Yes he is relatively inexperienced and not very good. Is that any basis for passing on his "expertise" with $100 an hour coaching and $100 books ? I'd be LOOKING for coaching if my play was only at that level. I've seen his vids and his post flop play, use of hud and hand reading was not very good. I don't blame him for this there is no substitute for experience.

Zerosum79 didn't win at all in the superturbos and didn't win at the $22s. He did quite well in the games up to $11 until 2010 on Full Tilt but those games were very soft in 2009 and earlier.


Greg is doubtless a clever and charming individual who can present himself and his work in a pleasant and well organised way but is that any good if the work is lacking in good content due to a lack of technical knowledge ? At the end of the day he wants $100 a time for his technical know how.

I'll be curious to see what Collin has to say about your post as well.

You do realize that a lot of the reasons why Collin got friction when coming out with his book was because he was a relatively unknown author and player right?

HB - I will make you a deal. I will sell you a copy at $20. I will allow you to own the book with the same money back guarantee as anyone else who purchases the book. All I ask is that after you are done reading it and studying it:

a) You post an honest review including addressing what you think it is actually worth to a US and Non US player.
b) If you like it, ship me what ever additional amount of money you think it might have been worth to a US player. If that is $0 additional, than ship me nothing. If you think it was worth less than $20, I will refund your money.

Regards,
zero

Thanks for the complement. I would love to consider myself charming but I am not sure that is true. I am certain that I have a devilishly handsome redline at the superturbos though. Unfortunately the actual winnings did not cooperate. That was the original game I played with Team Moshman prior to them discouraging their students to play them due to this very reason.

zero

Class act ITT.

Not a zerosum fanboy or DTB member. Just a guy who likes poker books who has been following this thread. Zerosum has handled himself with an immense amount of class despite being put through the ringer (not saying it isnt deserved, new authors should expect this in poker) and this latest example really impressed me.

Any timeframe on a Mac and/or iPad version?

I am working on it right now. Unfortunately no timeline though. Its actually a drawback I had not realized when selecting drm software.

As someone who recently purchased this course i can say that im more than happy. Ive read alot of poker books, been a member of alot of training schools, so ive been around the block.

This book is by far the easiest reading experience i have had. The information is set out in a clear and concise way making the concepts easy to understand. The accompanying quiz videos really help compound that learning in a very quick way.

My understanding of the game and the ability to make correct decisions has improved immensely in just a few days.

Couple that with the fact that when i have emailed Zerosum some questions i had about some concepts in the book, he emailed me back very detailed answers to my questions within 24 hours, and considering how busy he must be that speaks volumes for him as a person and someone who really backs his product.

I would have no hesitation in purchasing further courses from him. All i can do is sing his praises.

Clever Cutter - I am excited to report that the book will run on Mac if you run a virtual windows terminal. I am not sure about the details of running virtual windows but can talk with you offline if you are interested in this option.

Regards,
zero

I probably should have mentioned a run all apple computers. I was concerned about this. I have not had a virtual machine running windows for years. I am bummed as I was really looking forward to the book.

I definitely agree that no matter how comprehensive a book/system is, or how long it took to produce, that alone doesn't justify a particular price. Ultimately in any market prices just come down to supply and demand. If you want to come out with a system to beat $1 tournies and charge $10k for it you can absolutely do that, but you'll almost certainly end up with 0 sales. So while my opinion is that Greg chose a very reasonable price for his system, it's of course up to everyone to decide for themselves whether that price is worth it to them.

I didnt read the book, but i think the pivot system is very complicated to memorize. It is much easier to remember the equity that you need to call a shove,add the bubble factor and then remember what % of Hands you can call against x% shoving Range.
For example: I know that i need 50% Equity. Then i can remember that i can call just under half the Range from the shover. If i need 45% EQ i can call 0,6-0,7* the Range of the shover. I think its much easier if you think in frequencies than to memorize so many pivot points.Especially when the bubble factors get high there will be so many different stacksizedistributions with different bubblefactors etc. that it is impossible to make pivot points for all of these situations and remember these points.

That was poor advice from Team Moshman. If you're a winning player you can get a better hourly from these as obviously they don't take long to play. The advice should have been to maintain a bankroll big enough for them as the ROIs are lower.