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TOC for Applications of No-Limit Hold 'em Now in stock and shipping TOC for Applications of No-Limit Hold 'em Now in stock and shipping

02-14-2013 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polki
idea of the price ?
I'll wait for Mason to announce the official price, but it's a 2+2 book. Look at what previous 2+2 books have cost and it should be clear it's not going to be anything unreasonably expensive.
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02-14-2013 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Janda
Simply having access to information doesn't make you awesome
Well put, and it applies to lots of things.
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02-14-2013 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Janda
I'll wait for Mason to announce the official price, but it's a 2+2 book. Look at what previous 2+2 books have cost and it should be clear it's not going to be anything unreasonably expensive.
great
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02-14-2013 , 03:58 PM
i have no doubt that this book will be great for nlhe cash games but care to elaborate how is it going to help with tournament play when the avg stack size is mostly <30bb? Does your book talk about tournament play ?
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02-14-2013 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybeartku
i have no doubt that this book will be great for nlhe cash games but care to elaborate how is it going to help with tournament play when the avg stack size is mostly <30bb? Does your book talk about tournament play ?
Part 13 is shallow and deep stack play, but that makes up only a small portion of the book.

The problem is ranges will change so drastically based on being 10, 15, or 25 big blinds deep that it's not really possible to go into too much detail for this. Additionally, since I haven't played many tournaments, I don't have ranges already memorized that I can apply theory to and tweak.

The theory previously explained in the book will of course still apply, but nearly all the hands focus on 100 big blind stacks. I still think tournament players will benefit from reading this book, but they'll benefit from increasing their overall understanding of the game (especially with regards to bet sizing). I imagine other books exist that have used simulations to estimate ranges for very shallow stack depth, but that isn't here.
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02-14-2013 , 05:01 PM
I'm really looking forward to this. Looks like it's going to be great.
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02-14-2013 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Janda
Part 13 is shallow and deep stack play, but that makes up only a small portion of the book.

The problem is ranges will change so drastically based on being 10, 15, or 25 big blinds deep that it's not really possible to go into too much detail for this. Additionally, since I haven't played many tournaments, I don't have ranges already memorized that I can apply theory to and tweak.

The theory previously explained in the book will of course still apply, but nearly all the hands focus on 100 big blind stacks. I still think tournament players will benefit from reading this book, but they'll benefit from increasing their overall understanding of the game (especially with regards to bet sizing). I imagine other books exist that have used simulations to estimate ranges for very shallow stack depth, but that isn't here.
thanks. I've always liked your videos on CR and I will for sure buy this master piece when it's available.
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02-14-2013 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Janda
There's a lot of stuff in between pot odds and 3/4/5 betting. All of Part One is between it.

This book was particularly difficult to write because it's tough to discuss specific concepts with hand examples before all concepts have been introduced. In other words, if I discuss river play last, I get to use all the theory we've previously discussed when analyzing a river situation. But if I discuss river play first, I have to pick my words very carefully or ignore certain aspects of the hand because those concepts haven't yet been addressed.

One possibility would be to explain all the theory concepts first and not discuss situations street by street, but examples are critical for understanding theoretical concepts. I think we did a great job of using examples consistently throughout the book, which makes it both easier and more enjoyable to read. So this required us to start somewhere first, and ultimately I thought pre-flop was best since this way ranges wouldn't appear to come from out of nowhere (as they would if we started with river play first).

This method also prevents the reader from becoming overwhelmed, which is something that's pretty easy to do if concepts are discussed too quickly without examples. A lot of good but not great players play the way they do because their strategy is so much easier to implement than a more complex (but better) strategy, so it's important for the book to slowly guide the reader rather than throw too much difficult content at him (or her!) at once.

Lastly, Part 16 is quite long with many detailed hand examples. And as viewers who watch my videos from CardRunners know, when I say "detailed" I mean detailed. So, at this point all theory from the book is fair game and I discuss what I think each player should do with their entire range at every point in the hand. This isn't just where I show a few examples of where to apply concepts from earlier, as that already happened when the concept was first being introduced. Thus a large portion of the book will be implementing all the theory previously discussed at once rather than just a single isolated concept.
From this post, I don't doubt that you are seriously bold-underlined detailed. I said it looks pretty good. I haven't bought a book since MoP, I still play poker a ton, and I've been waiting for a book to buy next for quite a few years. Oddly, there are now two books I'd be interested in buying: this and the Tipton book. I just wondered why the dichotomy between the basic, which looks sort of tacked on and glossed over, and the quite advanced stuff, so the question is about the arc of the book, from Zero to Hero or something different?
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02-14-2013 , 10:00 PM
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I'm really looking forward to this. Looks like it's going to be great.
+1
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02-14-2013 , 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
From this post, I don't doubt that you are seriously bold-underlined detailed. I said it looks pretty good. I haven't bought a book since MoP, I still play poker a ton, and I've been waiting for a book to buy next for quite a few years. Oddly, there are now two books I'd be interested in buying: this and the Tipton book. I just wondered why the dichotomy between the basic, which looks sort of tacked on and glossed over, and the quite advanced stuff, so the question is about the arc of the book, from Zero to Hero or something different?
The book doesn't just throw you in the deep end. In fact, most of the difficulties Mason and I had working together came when working on the first few parts because we needed to make sure we were in near perfect agreement. Information is presented especially carefully in the first few sections, especially with regards to flop play.

I think Mathematics of Poker is an amazing book, but this will be a much easier read. TwoPlusTwo takes their "find a way to present the information in a clear and simple way" philosophy very seriously, and if anything was needlessly difficult it was either rewritten (usually several times) or removed entirely. Because of this I don't think the difficult throughout the book is pretty consistent, though the flop chapters are probably slightly more difficult than the rest. Nevertheless, examples are used throughout the book so whenever a concept begins to feel overwhelming their is almost always a break in the theory and several examples are discussed.
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02-14-2013 , 11:51 PM
***should read "because of this I think the difficulty level throughout the book is pretty consistent," though I think...***
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02-15-2013 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Janda
I'll wait for Mason to announce the official price, but it's a 2+2 book. Look at what previous 2+2 books have cost and it should be clear it's not going to be anything unreasonably expensive.
The suggested retail price will probably be $39.95, the same as Harrington on Online Cash Games; 6-Max No-Limit Hold 'em since that has a similar page count.

Best wishes,
Mason
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02-15-2013 , 09:02 AM
Split it into two books at $24.95 to $29.95 each. Think of the increased monies over one book at $39.95.

Last edited by Doc T River; 02-15-2013 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Of course, one book of 500 pages will probably wear out faster than a 250 page book so many people will be buying mulitples.
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02-15-2013 , 09:05 AM
It's 2013 I'm I'm excited about buying a poker book.

Who've thought?
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02-16-2013 , 05:13 AM
Looks awesome. Eagerly awaited.
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02-17-2013 , 12:13 AM
It's been quite awhile since I've seriously played cash games. I played them in the early days of FTP but mostly been a sng and tourney player the last 8 years. Even when i played cash i dont think i fared that well as soft as games were in say 07. I also logged a very, very high number of rush hands but I always played with a 40bb stack. Lately, I need a new format, I want to get excited about playing poker again. Would this be a good book to get my feet wet? I really need to familiarize with basic fundamentals like general opening ranges, three bet ranges etc., I know there is serious money to be made in cash, while although sustaining a poker career for 8 years, I feel my cash game would be average at best in an average 1/2 nl 6 max online game. If I read your book thoroughly, even more than once, would I be good to go?
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02-17-2013 , 12:26 AM
Odd I kinda sayd to my self there was litle reason to invest in any more poker books ( I have many already)

But I dont think i can pass up on this one.
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02-17-2013 , 12:27 AM
Is the "Recommended Hand Chart" in part 2 (preflop play) specifically for 3 bet/4 bet situations or is it actually a hand chart with opening ranges from each position type thing?
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02-17-2013 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighOctane
Is the "Recommended Hand Chart" in part 2 (preflop play) specifically for 3 bet/4 bet situations or is it actually a hand chart with opening ranges from each position type thing?
Both, but while theory is very good at proving certain pre-flop hand ranges must be wrong, it can't prove what's correct. So it will give players a good idea of what ranges should look like but of course isn't optimal (actual optimal ranges are completely unsolvable and would look crazy since you don't even do the same thing with the same hand every time).
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02-17-2013 , 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2 dog, p2
It's been quite awhile since I've seriously played cash games. I played them in the early days of FTP but mostly been a sng and tourney player the last 8 years. Even when i played cash i dont think i fared that well as soft as games were in say 07. I also logged a very, very high number of rush hands but I always played with a 40bb stack. Lately, I need a new format, I want to get excited about playing poker again. Would this be a good book to get my feet wet? I really need to familiarize with basic fundamentals like general opening ranges, three bet ranges etc., I know there is serious money to be made in cash, while although sustaining a poker career for 8 years, I feel my cash game would be average at best in an average 1/2 nl 6 max online game. If I read your book thoroughly, even more than once, would I be good to go?
I think my previous post about how poker players in general overestimate the importance of having access to information and underestimate the importance of hard work and practice would apply here. In other words, if you just read this book cover to cover twice I imagine you'll be overloaded with information, as developing the ability to apply the concepts well (and "well" is relative to your stake and goals) will take more effort than just reading.

That said, if you've been playing for a while I think you'll like this book a lot, as it's very easy to get in the habit of doing something which makes no sense if everyone else is doing it (such as betting 2/3rd's of the pot in a spot where that bet sizing makes no sense despite it being "standard"). It should help regulars break bad habits and prevent newer players from developing them.
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02-17-2013 , 04:55 AM
Im Super Excited about this book! Between your book and Tiptons there is no limit to where my game will end up at:-) I have two questions for you. How much of the book is dedicated to river spots? And will this book help me to visualize my ranges in certain spot in a vacuum as opposed to one individual hand analysis(trying to learn to view my entire range in a spot)?
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02-17-2013 , 11:00 AM
Thanks Matthew. I realize I did not end my post well with "good to go"

I know hard work outside of this book is a must
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02-17-2013 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
The suggested retail price will probably be $39.95, the same as Harrington on Online Cash Games; 6-Max No-Limit Hold 'em since that has a similar page count.

Best wishes,
Mason
Seems like a good deal. This book should be pure gold.
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02-18-2013 , 07:28 AM
hello, just looked to table of contents, and in "playing turn IP"chapter it looks like spot like facing a turn bet after flop check/check is missing, when all other possible situations is presented, so just wondering..
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02-18-2013 , 10:38 AM
Sounds underpriced. I paid the sign-up fee and the 30/m at CR just to watch Janda's theory videos.
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