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08-10-2009, 04:15 PM
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#61
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old hand
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 128
Posts: 1,400
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
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Originally Posted by jimmysnow
Bluffing is important but should not be a major part = zero bluffing
Nice straw man argument. Well played sir 
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Upon rereading amulet's comments it seems he wasn't completely forbidding bluffing at nl200. My bad, didn't construct straw men on purpose.
Doesn't change the fact that amulet's comments regarding bluffing at nl200 are wrong and are more in line with nl25 games these days.
And he doesn't say that "bluffing is important at nl200" like your post suggests - on the contrary.
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08-10-2009, 05:23 PM
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#62
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enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Location
Posts: 80
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpo
Upon rereading amulet's comments it seems he wasn't completely forbidding bluffing at nl200. My bad, didn't construct straw men on purpose.
Doesn't change the fact that amulet's comments regarding bluffing at nl200 are wrong and are more in line with nl25 games these days.
And he doesn't say that "bluffing is important at nl200" like your post suggests - on the contrary.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet
Regarding my review, I agree that stealing is profitable at 1/2 6 Max online, and I agree that bluffing is an important part of NL. One area where we disagree is that I think in general bluffing at 1/2 6 max online is problematic because the opponents call so often.
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Your right he said bluffing at NL not 1/2 6 Max like the sentence before......my bad
Does not matter what the stakes are as both styles are solid at any level. It just depends on the players at each table your sitting at. Broadly applying one general strategy based on what level your playing is just bad level one poker.
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08-13-2009, 09:05 PM
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#63
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,133
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
How much is SPR discussed in this book?
IS there any content on how to play a 50 BB stack?
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08-14-2009, 04:16 AM
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#64
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journeyman
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 392
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
SPR is discussed mainly in the valuebetting part, in order to choose your line, know when you're committed etc. There isn't a specific part for shortstacked play, though.
I would say it's probably on purpose, since a shortstack takes away a lot of the plays the authors focus on.
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08-15-2009, 12:40 PM
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#65
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old hand
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,501
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
The content is primarily focused on 100 BB stacks.
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08-18-2009, 02:37 AM
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#66
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old hand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Close to Bay 101 and its sick rake.
Posts: 1,997
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertJohn
IMO, Small Stakes No-Limit Hold’em is way ahead of any other poker book in its readability. Maybe Super System is comparable, but the strategies discussed in SSNL are more complex, so its flow is more impressive. But backhandedly using sic on a message board is uncommonly douchey. It's a toss-up.
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  Funny!
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08-20-2009, 01:10 PM
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#67
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veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,874
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
I never wrote that no bluffing should take place at 1/2 6 max NL. To be clear, all players must bluff. It is an important part of the game. 3 betting light betting, betting with air when no one seems interested in a pot, reraising when the high card on the board pairs, etc., the list is endless, these are all "normal" sound bluffing opportunities that all players use. Aggressive play is important, bluffing is important. However, those examples are different from what is described in the bluffing chapter and throughout the book. "Barreling" at 1/2 6 max NL is dangerous because the players call too often. That was my point. I think the authors were not giving good advice for the games they were writing about, and following said advice will cost readers money.
Several people objected to me posting anonymously. The form allows people to post anonymously, that is the nature of the internet. Almost all posters don't give their real name unless they have something to sell. Additionally, since I post advice and hand in the PL/NL Hold 'em section, I want to remain anonymous.
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08-20-2009, 01:21 PM
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#68
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,006
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet
"Barreling" at 1/2 6 max NL is dangerous because the players call too often.
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There are players at 50NL with high winrates who barrel the turn a significant percentage of the time without the goods.
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08-20-2009, 01:54 PM
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#69
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veteran
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dagobah System
Posts: 2,413
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie
There are players at 50NL with high winrates who barrel the turn a significant percentage of the time without the goods.
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I would think that at that level its likely somewhat player specific.
i could be wrong though.
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08-20-2009, 02:07 PM
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#70
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HoldEmKillah
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Working. At a job. Really.
Posts: 21,663
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouird
I would think that at that level its likely somewhat player specific.
i could be wrong though.
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The way I see it, there are two different ways of going about it:
1. List the ways you make money, then explain how to apply those ways against your opponents.
2. List the things your opponents do wrong, then explain how to exploit those mistakes.
The authors took the first approach. My feeling is that the latter approach might be a bit clearer and might lead to a bit less focus on bluffing which might also be beneficial. As I said before, though, I'm sure the authors have had success explaining their approach this way, so to each his own. But for my students, I think the way the authors lay out the book will be too likely to lead to bad habits/thought processes.
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08-20-2009, 04:07 PM
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#71
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centurion
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 113
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet
Several people objected to me posting anonymously. The form allows people to post anonymously, that is the nature of the internet.
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No, What was found objectionable was how you kept telling Sunny you knew him and that you got on without telling him who you were. It was obvious that at least for a while you didn't even tell him via pm.
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08-20-2009, 04:31 PM
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#72
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old hand
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: "turn on ,tune in, drop out"
Posts: 1,263
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
It is a good book, took a lot of work to write, and it is worth buying. That said, another thread reminded that wasn't it Ed Miller that came up with a shortstack stategy for NL that was supposedly unexploitable? Yet, I don't remember seeing anything in the book about using a shortstack or about how to play against it. Has it become exploitable now or did I miss something?
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08-20-2009, 05:23 PM
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#73
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grinder
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 410
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerlogist
It is a good book, took a lot of work to write, and it is worth buying. That said, another thread reminded that wasn't it Ed Miller that came up with a shortstack stategy for NL that was supposedly unexploitable? Yet, I don't remember seeing anything in the book about using a shortstack or about how to play against it. Has it become exploitable now or did I miss something?
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Didn't they said somewhere that that section isn't completely finished/polished and it will be in a future version/update?
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08-20-2009, 05:25 PM
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#74
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grinder
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 410
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oct0puz
I find it very strange that somebody who can beat the highest stakes in the world, only participates in discussions about books aimed at beginners and small stakes players and almost nothing else.
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Now this is funny too 
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08-21-2009, 03:09 AM
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#75
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journeyman
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 390
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Re: Review of Small Stakes No Limit Hold 'em by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and Matt Flynn
I'm only halfway through but I find it rather disappointing. I'm a 50NL player but more than once while reading I said to myself 'Tell me something I don't know'. Everything seems really basic.
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