If its a 300 plus pure PLO book i think a 29.99 price is about right. I know everyone of us PLO junkies will pay 29.99. Im not sure if a NLH player with no PLO experience will pay that but im sure he will pay 25.00 for it. So its a tough decision between 25 or 30. Just dont go with D&B publishing. There binding,paper sucks and it seems like they take forever to release books. I would reccomend 2+2 or Cordoza. Good luck Jeff.

#1 in Canada.

I do want to thank you guys again for your support -- I won't disappoint. In the meantime, the material is starting to come out on Card Player (the first article should be online soon). There's also a pretty good thread on the Omaha board here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=272672

Thanks again.

Jeff

Just so you know, we would not allow any of the material in books that we publish appear on any website in serial form where they are available for free and stay there forever. We spend too much time and effort, plus the expense of producing the book, to be giving significant parts of it away for free. I suspect that other publishers might feel the same way.

I would also recommend that you rethink this strategy. Specifically, and I'm speaking generically here, if an author came to us with a book that we were interested in doing, but then discovered that large portions of it were peramently on the Internet in a free location, it would stop us from publishing it. Again, I suspect that other publishers may feel the same way.

Mason Malmuth
Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC

From my own experience, I know that Jeff Hwang is not big on anything that does not border adoration.

Great English Proverb: Never give advice, wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it.

I agree that if large parts of a book appear verbatim for free and forever on the internet then it reduces the attractiveness of the book to publishers.

Free, forever - Unattractive!
Paid, forever - OK!
Free, limited time - OK!
Paid, limited time - what stupid business model is that

I strongly disagree, when I see parts of a book on the net if I like what I read that can convince me to buy the book even more if this parts are commented by the author

Some Bob Ciaffone books are compilation of his articles that you kind find for free, Rolf Stolboom book too (cardplayer/pokernews), Super System II is available for free on doyle's website ...

Depends on how stupid it is.

I'm sorry, but your statement is not knowledgeable. I don't believe the first two authors you mention are very successful at selling books, and I suspect that Doyle is more interested in promoting Doylesroom than in selling SS2. (It's also fairly easy to see how successful any book is. Just go to Amazon and check sales ranks.)

In the beginning, and I'm going back over 25 years, when I first began to write, the magazines only had what was known as first publication rights. This meant I could write an article and in two to four weeks, depending on the publication, it was gone, and then I could write another one. Six of my books Gambling Theory and Other Topics, Winning Concepts in Draw and Lowball, Blackjack Essays, and the three Poker Essays, were all written this way. Similar with some of David's books. So I'm well aware of this value.

But today things have changed. If all these articles would have been available on websites, the sales of these books would have been dismal. But there is also another reason why it was important to have my articles appear in the magazines. It keep my name in front of the poker playing/gambling public.

However, today, there just happen to be sites like www.twoplustwo.com where there is instant communication. To be perfectly honest, I never heard of Jeff Hwang until a few months ago. But now I know all about his book. He didn't have to spend many years like I did writing hundreds of articles to get the word out. You, I, and virtually everyone else on this massive forum who would have any interest in a pot limit Omaha book know about his work.

So why in the world does he think that having his articles in Card Player Magazine would help his book sales, especially when I say it has the potential to ruin them. The key to all of this, as far as a poker author is concerned, is to have his book quickly well received by the serious poker community. Those are the people who are the potential poker book buyers.

And let me take this one step further. Last year, we added language to our contracts to make sure that authors, whose books we do, are not permitted to give their high quality material away. We put a great deal of time and effort into our products, and also spend a great deal of money on production. In addition, because of the high royalties that we pay, our authors on average make four to five times what they would make from most other publishers, and this includes our major competitors. So why an author would choose to jeapordize this by giving his stuff away for life is something I just don't understand, unless of course he is operating under the mistaken impression, as you seem to be, that it is actually to his benefit to do so.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Al:

You need to understand that poker book publishing is my life, and I understand the difficulties that most book authors go through, especially since I went through many of these same difficulties when I started out. So I learned the hard way.

I'm also aware that most poker book authors don't have a chance. There are way more poker books coming out than will make the book shelves, and thus will have no sales. We turn down book after book because we know they have no chance. This includes beginner books, biographies, auto-biographies, profiles of players, and strategy books for which the strategy being offered is questionable in our opinion. This also includes some of the biggest names in poker as well as many people you have never heard of.

But every now and then, a book comes along that really is good enough and is accepted by our community for being well worth while. Apparently, that's the case with Hwang's book. I haven't read it, but the response here is certainly positive. So I just feel that people like him who do have something worthwhile to offer should not be punished even though they usually are.

Best wishes,
mason

Mason,

I believe Jeff is going to do a section on floating in PLO. Its just a fraction of what the book will be and i think he is doing it for two reasons. One he loves to teach and second he is using it as a teaser so that we can get even more interested and buy the book. Thats my take on it. It would be nice to hear what Jeff thinks.

I agree with Mason. The difference between book publishing and the music industry is that the best business model for music involves giving stuff away for free and then selling ancillary products, such as concerts, limited edition junk, asking for donations from fans, etc.

This doesn't really work with poker books (although it could work for other types of books) because you don't have ancillary products to sell.

Of course, you could give away your stuff on the internet for free for many other reasons!

- You like teaching
- Income isn't your primary goal, you want to get more people playing PLO
- You want to be famous
- You want kudos and goodwill
- etc. etc.

You wrote a book on a minor form of poker. You did not discover the theory of relativity. Get over yourself already.

The first part of the book on PLO is revelatory and is IMO the finest thing in print on the subject. However, the material on LO8 and PLO8 is not as good but this is not important in that the book sells because of the PLO material. I gave you a balanced criticism and you went all churlish.

It is interesting to note that you do not thank Mason Malmuth for his good intentioned advice but instead attack me. You are an ingrate.

Dear Mason,

You are a principled person.

I myself have criticized your products when I have thought them worthy of criticism and I have held and do hold opposite sides to you in various theoretical debates but you have not hindered my use of the forum in any way whatsoever. I have long admired your inherent fairness.

How can some of the users of these forums not disappoint you? Jeff Hwang does not thank you (however insincerely) and he just attacks me. He is full of his own importance. I do believe there is a certain humility about you. You and David Sklansky are important figures in the history of poker but you do not trumpet it.

Best Wishes,

Al Mirpuri.

You can't be serious. I don't see how you can throw a fit on something trivial, wait a month and send me hate mail when I don't answer your questions, and expect to be taken seriously.