I was wondering what other people think of the Rock-Paper-Scissors comparison in Poker Tournament Formula by Arnold Snyder.

Although I liked many sections of the book, I just felt this was a bit far-fetched. I understand the point he was trying to make; that position beats cards, cards beat stack and stack beats position. But I don't think this section was particularly helpful in improving my game.

Any thoughts?

I think it is a good general rule of thumb.

can u paraphrase the formula for us ignorants?

absue your position and if people check or show weakness then bet them out of the pot

fire triple barrell bluffs with air because "slowplaying is rare in small fast tournaments"

It's a pretty long section but I'll try to give a summary.

In part of the book Snyder compares tournament poker with the children's game rock-paper-scissors. I hope you know this game, because it will make this a lot easier to understand. But in this game, scissors beat paper, paper beats rock and rock defeats scissors.

What Snyder says is that there is a similar relationship between the 3 main factors of poker: stack size, position and cards. He says:
- Position beats cards: quite often the player in position beats the player OOP, with a worse hand
- Stack beats position: if you can go all-in without risk position no longer matters
- Cards beat stack: if you have a small stack you just need a better hand to win.

This all makes sense when I write it all in a few sentences. But in the book this explanation takes 10 pages. In this section the author tries to fit the complexities of Tournament Poker into this simple framework. As I said for me it doesn't work; it doesn't give me any insight in how to play my hands, or how to use position/stack/cards effectively.

Again, opinions are welcome.

yeah that's a pretty good summary of that chapter

do that for the others as well lol i don't understand how anyone can win with the strategies in that book i just seem to be bluffing in position constantly

is it aimed at live or online?

+1.

That particular book did more for my tournament results then any other.

You have to relax a bit from some of Snyder's recommended aggression I think, he seems to have aimed it generally at fast live tournaments, but of course a lot of it works very well at the even faster online ones.

Cliff Notes for the book: be more aggressive.

I'd have to read it again but did Snyder say that about the slowplaying or did he say that you the reader shouldn't slowplay much whereas many people will slowplay too much and either not get the most value for their hand or be outdrawn?

He said that in fast tournaments if someone show weakness that's most of the time what it is. So if someone just calls your flop Cbet, make another one on the turn. I believe he also said explicitly that players that slowplay a strong hand are pretty rare.

Funny since I tend to slowplay strong hands quite often if it gives me a better chance of getting someone else's money in.

nicely paraphrased...thanks! of course, the author makes valid points about which holding (cards/position/stack) is more valuable given one or the other.

however, tireless aggression probably makes more sense for deep-stacked tourney play where u can afford to make some big steals/bluffs even early on. for our online MTTs, where starting stacks are typically 1500, I find that early aggression DOES NOT help much. a single bad play like this can often leave ur stack crippled.

therefore, in tourneys (mostly SNGs) like this, I find that cards do the talking in the early and middle stages, while stack sizes can be better leveraged later on. (LDO)

position, of course, is important all around.

yeah i agree

if you start trying to buy pots in those 1500 starting chip tourneys you just get called down by air/any draw

i really find it hard to see how these strategies could be useful in any tourney other than a fairly deep one full of complete weak tight nits.

If nothing else, Snyder is a truly original thinker; his Algebraic Approximation paper for blackjack three decades ago was a terrific way for small-stakes recreational blackjack counters to get to use an advanced strategy. I happily used the Griffin-3 system until June '81 when Atlantic City changed their rules and sent me back to poker.

yeah i'm not hating on snyder, i think he's a legend and a great player.

i just find it hard to find his information applicable to any online tourneys or live i can never seem to get much out of his book despite everyone else raving about it

I loved reading the books because they are well wrritten and gave me a take on other people's game. All in all I find the hyper aggression and sometimes very loose play to be non workable for an abc player like me who does not have super instincts and is also playing against guys who will call me down with most of the moves he suggests.

One thing that was very interesting is than in book one, he classifies the Pokerstars 180 man sit and goes as not being that fast and as requiering a more patient and higher skill level than many brick and mortar tournaments.

Has anyone been able to in any way utilize Snyder's books for the pokerstars 180s? Although the books are a fun read and they almost totally and hillariously captured my style in the sub-section titled "Harringbots," I have found Snyder's advice to be way too loose and aggressive, and the large winners that I am often up against do not seem to have a style in any way resembling the one Snyder suggests. Anyone out there using these books successfully in the pokerstars 180s ?