Pretty sure he meant if it were cheaper, it would be an easy buy, based on the content quality. He argues in the next sentence that he's not sure about the $2,5k.

Exactly,

deductive reasoning ftw

"One of the sad realities of the trading industry and futures trading in particular is that there are far more people making money selling systems and “ways to make money trading” than there are people actually making money by trading.

There are many “famous traders” who don’t make money as traders. They make money selling new trading systems, seminars, home study courses, etc. Many, if not all, of these so called “experts” can’t trade and don’t trade the systems that they sell."


This is precisely what this for poker instead of the stock market. Tom Chambers is down over $150,000 this year. He's a loser at just about every form of poker from sngs, multitable tournaments, hu sngs, nl cash, plo, you name it, he's lost at this year. And now he wants to sell some books and coaching for $5000. His top program is $6250. What is this guy smoking? PLO is a nut peddling game. It's not that hard. How do you guys support him? Were most of you born yesterday? This is a get rich quick scam. Nothing more. He's just after your money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_probability_(Omaha)

Do your own homework. There's a math resource for Omaha.

Unfortunately it is not that easy.

Would you like to pull up some proof, with links and the sorts? I see SS has him down over 388 games, but that is a small sample, and perhaps not a huge interest for him.

I think the concern should be more over cash games dealing specifically with PLO. That is all that matters. I can kick your butt at quite a few games, but if you look at my Stud/8 losses, you would call me a fish.

My flimsy research shows him down about 5k on SNGs, and up 17K on MTTs, for a profit of 12k in non-cash games.

I don't know much about tracking people, but what is public shows that he is, in fact, a winning player.

If I'm not mistaken it's not done yet. The soonest I could pick it up is January.

I can't make announcements about release dates and such but I think it's ok to say that this is correct. Some of it has been released, not all, which is why there aren't any substantive reviews yet.

----

I'm kinda surprised that I'm not down at sngs + mtts given that I megatabled sngs I was -ev in at end of '08 to make supernova elite and haven't cashed in a 2k+ wcoop or scoop event or final tabled a sunday. I also whiffed the wsop this year after anti-whiffing it the previous year. None of which matters.

I'd love to see a datamine with me down 150k at plo this year, I'd send it to the IRS and have a drink on mahatma.

We all know Mahatma has no basis for anything he posts on this entire forum site. He loves to just cause spam wars and flame everyone. I'm interested to see some reviews when the final product is out.

Proof or ban this idiot please

This shyster is trying to sell some poker books for three thousand five hundred dollars and I'm the bad guy in this thread? Do any of you have any common sense?

Jeff Hwangs 6 max PLO book is 540 pages long and it cost just $23. Twoplustwo books are about $20. Do you see me attacking these books?

$3500 is astonishingly high price for some poker books. You'd have to the most gullible person on earth to buy these books. Who the hell is Tom Chambers? Why would anyone buy the most expensive poker books on earth from this guy? He's a nobody in the world of online poker. By chiming in on this thread, I'm looking out for you gullible kids. This guys just after your money, more $$ than he could ever make as a player.

Poker is easy for smart people. It is so easy for smart people to reason any hand in any form of poker down to the point where it is THE BEST ANYONE CAN POSSIBLY DO.
Pot limit Omaha is all about having the nuts. You look at any flop you know what hands love it. You always want sets, straight, nut flushes, huge draws. The nuts plus redraws.
Everyone whos really good at poker is intelligent enough to do all their own logical, analytical thinking. It's not that hard. The games is played with one deck of cards. I guess "common sense is not so common." Super expensive training material is fin bull****. It's the sellers make myself rich plan. The sellers are twenty year olds who opened up ms word and started writing. How naive, gullible can you all be ??? Poker training material for 50-100 times the normal prices is s u c k e r s.

P.S. This might be an okay book. Too bad nobody is going to find out until there is a going out of business sale.

Happy Holidays 2+2ers!

Ebooks seem to attract the hugest trolls. If I run like jesus, I'll buy these...

Serious question though. what is the author's background, lifetime plo cash winnings etc. how come he doesn't put up a lifetime graph of his cash game winnings?

if he did it might go towards me buying it.

This. What are your actual qualifications to write this book? I'm not saying that your not a good player, I have no idea. But if you want people to shell out 2500 dollars, you should at least explain why you are qualified to write this.

I'm pretty sure tons of depth on my qualifications would be a no-no here, but I've made plenty of strat posts on the PLO boards on 2p2 and have coached plenty of satisfied students. Overall, a lot of these questions are answered on the website, including on the Bio and FAQ tabs. I'm going to be adding to the FAQ this weekend to address a few new topics/questions I've been getting.

The short answer to main question in these posts is that I don't want my results public for a few reasons, but I am fine with saying that I am a good but not spectacular winner 6-12 tabling (mostly 9) at 2/4-5/10, with some 10/20 mixed in. Next year I plan to play mostly 5/10. I'm not the best in those games, I'm a bankroll nit who tilts, and guys like gordo and skjervoy and a few other 5/10+ players are definitely just purely better than me, and that's why they beat 25/50 and I don't. But I'm not sure any of them would be better suited to have written this particular book. I play pretty well, but I do the things that go into making a book of this nature a lot better than I play. Which is why it makes sense that I wrote this instead of someone like cts or aba who has better things to do with a couple thousand hours. I have sent graphs to a couple people who were seriously interested, but generally I just dislike the idea and implication of posting them publically. I want the material to speak for itself.

Whether it's worth it is up to you, the sample materials are out there, a more complete preview version will be soon. I really have no quarrel with people with legitimate questions who think the price is outrageous for a msplo grinder to charge or don't think the style/structure that I believe justifies the price is suited to them. Which is why I was willing to answer this more completely than I answered the spammish posts earlier in the thread from people with an obvious agenda. I hope it is useful to the serious folks.

Tom

(As mentioned earlier in the thread, my screen names are public so now that ptr tracks plo if it matters that much to you you'll have plenty of opportunity to wait out my first few months of '10 before deciding).

I've bought the book. It's extremely good. It's not for everyone. Whoever made the comparison to a college textbook was right. I'm extremely happy I bought it.

I knw mahatma is just a troll, but to address something I see posted here all the time: the ability of someone to teach or confer valuable knowledge about poker does not depend on his ability to play poker. Ofcourse if someone plays well there is a higher probability they are a good teacher. Even if they are a breakeven player they could still be a great coach

take a poster like vanveen. He is maybe the best poster on 2p2 not only in strategy forums but other forums as well. I've found myself going thru his old posts several times just to glean a bit of knowledge from him. But if you read his posts, he's the first to admit he is not a great or even good poker player. I think he has admitted he probably wouldn't beat 2/4. Nonetheless he would he a fantastic coach. From a remved analytical position he is almost genius

I don't mean to imply Tom isn't a good player. I obviously can't know for sure, but I'm confident he is. The point however is that mahatmas reasoning for nit buying this book is horrible and should be discounted.'what's important is the actual material Tom puts out and it's value to you as the buyer

quite frankly, I'd rather not post this since from my point if view the less people that buy this book the better. But toms a good guy and doesn't deserve to be attacked like this.

The best way to tell if this stuff is worth the money is through peer review. And specifically what I mean by this are his strategy posts on our forums and the reaction to them by our posters, particularly those who are considered the better players.

On the other hand, producing students who say you are wonderful, and I'm speaking generically here and not specifically towards this person, doesn't mean much to me since people like this can always be found, and even producing terrific win rates can be misleading. But what other knowledgeable people, and those perhaps a little less knowledgeable but who are thinking seriously about the subject matter, say and exactly how they react to the posts should be a pretty good guide. And you should be able to see this by going to our appropriate forum.

Mason

I don't Mason really understands the e-book market (no offense Mason) and the evolution of poker (especially online) as a whole.

I have bought 3 e-books (Baluga Whale's NLHE book, Slowhabit's PLO and NLHE workbook) and I have read basically every 2+2 poker book.

No offense to the 2+2 book, but even the cheapest book (NLHE workbook) blows any 2+2 book out of the water in terms of content and application to online games.

You take a player who has only read the 2+2 book and one who has also read Baluga Whales book (assuming everything else is the same), in the long run, the person reading just the 2+2 book will be so throughly outclassed that he will go broke if they play each other long enough.

The e-books are covering topics with an incredible amount of depth that the 2+2 books don't even mention. These topics are basically standard knowledge now if you want to continue winning online, but the standard poker books don't even address it.

I do wish that these ebooks never came out because the learning curve is so drastic now. It's a matter of keeping up with the Jones. If everyone else at your table understands and applies these aspects of the game and you have never bought the book, you are in big trouble.

Bottom line is this Mason and I don't mean it to be mean: 2+2 books are utilized by TagFish and they add to my winrate.

Its not realistic to compare the current ebooks to 2+2's publications. They aren't targeted towards the same types of players...

What does your post have to do with LearnfromTV's plo book? Nothing.

Try to save that type of stuff for an ebook discussion thread so that we can keep the topic on Tom's PLO book. It will help a lot of us who are truly interested in reading the discussion about the books content.

most of the posters on this forum are 10NL fish who have no concept of applying higher level thinking in their poker game. i completely understand the market for a $2500 ebook, which is basically made up of the midstakes grinders playing against tough opponents, who actually have to use their brain while playing poker. like someone said before, you are paying for information, not for a "book." why would a winning player at 5/10 publish this type of information and practically give it away for $25 a pop, especially if it wouldn't even appeal to a mass audience? now, i've never bought a bought one of these expensive ebooks, but there's a reason why the players who beat mid-high stakes generally keep quiet in strategy discussions on this forum. their knowledge is valuable. and it just so happens that their knowledge makes them an average income in the top 5% of all americans.

the 2+2 books are basically for beginning players, playing in games full of drooling ******s. if you're playing 1/2 at a casino or 25NL online, then yeah, youll benefit from a 2+2 book. they'll teach you good fundamentals, but good fundamentals only get you so far online. when everyone is using a HUD, and there are in fact other good, winning players at the table with you, then it's pretty obvious why someone would pay this much for a book if they felt they had leaks and wanted to take their game to the next level.

The whole thread has basically been about whether ebooks are worth their high price tags when other options are available..... I'm simply giving my input. Also, these books are targeted at the same audience: poker players. The difference is that ebooks are read by the good players,while 2+2 is read by weaker players.

Instead of trying to see what people say about the book, why don't you just buy it? What purpose does your post serve? Try to save your type of stuff for people who will cater to bull****. If you are this anal about the contents of the book, you're not going to buy it so please move along. Credible people have already given their input on Tom's book, if that isn't enough then LOL. Stop posing please

I prefer books with paper pages. Don't care much fo virtuel books.

This is very true. I own a lot of 2+2 books which were great when I was starting out.

I also own the slowhabit book, the slowhabit workbook and Baluga's book. I also own SSNLHE and Improva's e-book.

All of these ebooks have paid for themselves and have far more relavent material to beating a modern midstakes game than anything 2+2 publish. The fact is that 2+2 books have not kept up with the times in terms of modern 6 max games.

I would say SSNLHE is just brilliant for lower stakes online players, Baluga and Improva are excellent for constructing a strong framework around your game for midstakes and the slowhabit stuff excellent for adding moves to your game and playing more than just ABC poker.

In terms of this thread, just because this book is 2.5k and learnedfromTV is not a high stakes players does not in itself mean that it is not valuable. 2.5k IS a lot of money, but I am thinking long and hard about spending the money given the positive experience I have had with my NLHE game thanks to the ebooks. Had he priced the book at $1250, I would already be a customer and I do think that the pricing here is over the top in this regard.

d2themfi is a leggo poker coach. The only people claiming to buy this are coaches from different training sites. They all received free copies. They like seeing their names and sites on as many pokersites as possible. It's cross promotion 101. My favorite book is called "How to sell the masses" anything. You should buy it. It's quite good. Everyone just wants your cash.

Hwangs 540 page short handed omaha book is $20. Volume 2 in the works. Watch videos everywhere for free or $30 a month. Also, you have your own brain, use it. $3500 is madness. The Aejones $5000 audio tapes ive listened too. It's pure crap. $199 for them would of been reasonable. High priced advice is for chumps. You are being taken advantage of. Poker is a stupid card game. It's EASY. SO EASY. The same 5 or 6 naive children are responsible for every reply in this thread.
I don't see anyone smart endorsing this ****.

I highly endorse and recomend the paper version of these book