Can you expand just a little, WHAT LIT YOU UP

we cant get samples of the book but we get this stellar review

are we discussing how to divide up bets to get a player all in OTR but we start witht he river bet

are we talking different texture boards or do we always have the nuts and just strong hands to work from

do we look at the river bet and then discuss if the board texture was different

No one DTB has even said anything yet from what i saw earlier today

Perhaps you can PM this reader to get his response.


I've hosted a 15 page sample on my website.

I did my best to provide the necessary tools to analyze every river scenario.

Let me goto your site and check this out since the interest is so overwhelmiing that you replied to me 3 times in one post

Just saying I looked at DTB and saw nothing. Why do I have to PM this dude he can just tell everyone here what LIT HIM UP unless it was you (shilling) COME NOW!!!!

A total review of saying nothing is what I read and then cant give one thing that LIT HIM UP

Its like slamming someone for charging $1100 for a book and then put a $75 price tag on a book and .......

I mena REALLY IT WILL GET OUT THERE AND YOU WONT MAKE A DIME seems you would want to get this book out to people before it gets photocopies and Torrented JUST LIKE DOUG HULL HAS CRIED ABOUT JUST LIEK BET RAISE FOLD PEOPLE HAVE CRIED ABOUT

Hard back or not this book shouldnt cost over $30 and you know this

I'm not a publisher who charges a lot for a book and then drops the price later. I've never changed my prices on any of my books.

If you were involved in printing and saw the book, you would know the price is incredibly reasonable. Your suggested price of $30 is less than the cost to print one copy. Do five minutes of research on printing a full color, 269 page, 8.5 x 11, #80 matte paper, hardback book, then you'll be able to speak more intelligibly about pricing.

I've no idea who Montrosity is, but I can think of many reasons why he hasn't responded to your inquiry.

I have tried to be helpful to your questions. I see no reason for your rude responses. If you don't like the price, don't buy the book and move on. Certainly no hard feelings here.

QTip, can you send a copy to a poker website that reviews books? There aren't even any reviews on Amazon. I am eager to read a review on this unique book.

Hi Anadrol.

I've reached out to a few, but haven't received responses yet. No one is more eager than I am for reviews. My favorite part of this process is the interaction with readers.

In any case, I'm sure reviews will come at some point. I've mentioned in this thread that I think it may take some time. The book is large and has much work for a student of the game. Several of my poker friends have been working through it and still are not to page 100. The book has only been released for two months now, so it doesn't surprise me there isn't much feedback yet.

what are teh students getting it for free A $30 price tage would probably 10x the sales

I got POKER MAth that matters and 1/2 the book is answers to question made earlier in the book JUSt BAD BUSINESS same with HHC so is the 160 page book 80 pages of answers you gotta flip back and forth

COME WHO HAS PMTM and HCC and tell how that book looks on the shelf compared to other books even Jandas new book and dont give me the the info is better, ED MILLER does a much a better job then what is here HCC gives one page of HH confessions

Im gonna buy this book just cause I study but DAMN but aint gonna lie he plays favorites some folks he interested in promoting and some he doesnt give a ****

JOHNATHAN little gets the same money grab statement with 14 vols of hands

SO what is 2013 of beating the game mean **** THE THE PEOPLE WHO WANT YOUR BOOKS #REALLYNOW
I offered to promote his book on my site and he FLAT TOLD ME NO but I saw other posters he was interested

I HAVE NO INTERESTED IN THESE HAS BEENS

I get what your saying..but maybe he thinks your site isn't popular enough or gets enough traffic to be viable for a free copy ...maybe he thinks your just trying to get a free copy..im not saying you are..just trying to see his point of view..but I see your point of view that that particular book is over priced. That book could have been printed in the vein of PMTM and been priced less..
And while I feel PMTM is totally worth the cost I didn't buy HCC because I talked to three people who read it and told me it didn't teach them hand reading at all..they also told me that ed Miller's book on hand reading was a little too complicated that a mix of the two would have been perfect..I will say I've messaged Owen and he's always been cordial in his responses and given me answers to.my questions

BackDownSouth:

I think you neeed to calm down a little.

So everyone knows, I don't know QTip and have no interest in his business, but he should be allowed to charge whatever price he wants for his books. If you have issues with his business model, that's fine and they can be addressed here. But it should be done in a more professional manner than you're doing.

Best wishes,
Mason

If you don't like questions/quizzes and answers, do not buy this book. It's a COURSE. A large part of the book is questions and answers. This type of learning process has been one of the most popular features of my previous books. You'll find what these look like in the sample on my website.

It is curious a poker book legend would come out of nowhere to defend Owen but I agree this guy goes buck wild on people..
I do agree with back that HHC (I have a very good friend who is a very solid poker player that said for hand reading this book is way overpriced and doesn't give you half of what you need to know to read hands) may not be worth the price tag but I completely disagree with him about PMTM. I got a ton of value from that book and found it seriously worth the price tag..although flipping to the back for answers was annoying so the layout would have been better if answers were right after the questions but still a great book..I got poker perspectives and it's an interesting read but it's not an instructional book..

Still no reviews posted for this book - anyone read it or gone through a good portion of it yet? I enjoy Owen Gaines' books but given the price tag, I am a bit hesitant to purchase unless I see some reviews.

I agree. When most people buy a book from a respected pro, they are doing it because they want insight into how a player thinks. The answers to questions are the most insightful part of books IMO because how the player solves a problem (in real time especially) is sometimes more useful than the discussion of the theory behind an issue.

zero

Just ordered this book. Cant wait to read it!

I just received the book today. I have not yet had a chance to dig into it but here are my first impressions:
- A beautiful book - this and Ace on the River are by and far the most beautiful poker books in the market today. Book is in hardcover and is in large form so it will not fit into your standard book shelf. The pages are in color and are very professionally laid out and it looks more like a textbook than a poker book. I can imagine if NL Hold'em became a college class, this is what one of the textbooks would look like.
- From reading the intro and glancing through the pages, this is not a beginner book. Author assumes you understand basic poker math, poker jargon, etc..
- Book goes through different hand problems with very thorough analysis on different lines to take (value betting, bluffing, etc..) and looks at the EV of each. In addition to analysis, there are many quizzes and questions to work through to test comprehension

My first impression is that this book is structured in such a way you feel like you are working through problems with your own poker coach.

Look forward to digging deeper - first impressions are good.

Regarding comments on learning to play the River first, there is another very good book that addresses the River first. Winning Strategies in No Limit Holdem by Nick Christensen and Russell Fox - that book also started with the River and to this day, I still think is one of the best NL books out there (also highly rated by Mason). For me, I find that I learn best from books that explain specific hands with Q & A and by the thinking process of a poker pro (some examples include Winning Poker Tournaments One Hand At A Time, Harrington on Holdem series, How Good is Your Pot Limit Holdem by Stewart Reuben, Roy Cooke books, Gus' Every Hand Revealed, Jonathan Little's book, etc..).

My view is this: if you aspire to be a winning poker player, you need to learn to think like one. Given QTip's credential as a professional poker player and has played over 8 million hands, I think he knows something about winning poker.

Thanks for the feedback.

Spot on there. I have a section in the introduction where I talk about assumed knowledge. I didn't wish to duplicate information I've already written.

I'm excited to hear what you get out of the book after you're finished.

Hello,
I bought this book when it came out and I'm just wondering if anyone would like to get together via Skype or by other means to discuss the concepts and try to apply them to different hands and situations.

Dom

Hi Dom. Glad to see you're getting into the material. Whether a group forms or not, I want to let you know I set up a forum on my website for this type of discussion. I'm happy to discuss application and concepts with readers in those forums.

Also, I've begun making videos to go along with the material. These videos are on my youtube channel and embedded in my forums to organize discussion.

Of course, I'm always available to answer questions here at 2+2 in this thread.

If you do get a group going, I'll be happy to join that as well. I always think it's beneficial for people to have study partners.

Thanks Owen just joined,

Hello Owen,
I tried the forum on your website,I forget my password & tried to reset it but the site isn't sending me an email to reset it.
I'll post a few questions here if you don't mind.
Can you tell me if the process I'm using is correct
Pg38 ex2 (A1)
A7 9combos
T9 12
KJ 12
Q8 8
KQ 8
JT 9
QQ 1

So that's a total of 59 combos
We beat A7 T9 KJ Q8 KQ 49combos

So is it 49/59 =83% so we have a clear value bet


on pg 12 the calculation on the bottom right
.60(30) + .40(-10)=14
I'm just wondering why we don't factor in our bet in the first half of the calc as it will be dead money?

Also you show examples using a $20 bet I'm just wondering what size is this in relation to the pot or does it matter?

Thanks

Dom

Hi Dom. Thanks for letting me know about the password stuff. I'll check that out. I'm happy to respond here or my site...whichever you find most convenient.

You did Ex. 2 A1 correctly. While doing 49/59 is fine (making sure it's over 50%), I just make sure there are more worse hands than better: 49 > 10. But, I'm sure you realize that...just a preference.

_______________


Make sure you understand everything on pages 13 and 14: the difference between EEV and EV equations. For example:

"you show examples using a $20 bet I'm just wondering what size is this in relation to the pot or does it matter?"

Check out footnote 4 on page 14.

It took a while for this stuff to sink in for me. Don't be afraid to keep probing until everything is clear for you.

______________


The first paragraph on page 13 (quote below) describes what the two equations represent:

.60(30) + .4(-10) or .60(40) - 10

The method is preference, but both give the true EV of a $10 bet into a $20 pot when the opponent calls with his entire range and we win 60% of the time.

"The first equation says we win $30 (the pot plus the opponent's call) 60% of the time, but we lose our $10 bet 40% of the time. The second equation says we win a $40 pot 60% of the time, but it cost us $10 to create that pot. Either method gives us the true EV of the value bet."

Hope that helps.

Thanks Owen,
So just to be clear before I move on,when I devide the combos that we beat by the total combos and it's more than 50% we have a profitable value bet?

true ev is how much we expect to win with our value bet?
EEV tells us if our bet has more value than checking?

All correct.