If you had to choose between these two books, which one is it?

Mental Game 1 and 2

Different books resonate with different people differently. While both books are enjoyable reads, I got more out of Mental Game. You might get more out of Elements.

unsure if question or advertisement.

Well, given OP put a question mark at the end, what do you really think?

Given that new low-post users show up in this section once a month asking this question or a slight variation of it, do you think they're asking to find out?

both

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

You're getting bluffed out of pots, imo.

Hi Everyone:

A few months ago we ended Jared Tendler's coaching advertising thread on 2+2. This was my decision.

So why was this decision made? Well, the way we see it is that Tendler is a sports psychologist. And that means he goes to the sports psychology world and tries to apply many of these same ideas to poker. So what does that do for you?

In anthletic sport, things like speed, timing, and coordination are important. This is all part of the execution basket that is present in a sport. My understanding is that things like being relaxed, being well rested/regular sleep habits, having a good diet, having confidence, being mentally tough, being focused, and so on all help in execution. And from my personal standpoint, I've played tennis (and I mean a lot of tennis) since I was a kid and believe that all of this is true. But what does it have to do with poker?

In any game, whether it's an athletic sport or a game like poker, there is also a knowledge component. For example. in tennis, you have to know things like how to hold a racket, how to swing properly, where you want to hit the ball, how much spin you want to put on the ball, etc. So there is clearly an important knowledge component in an athletic sport. What about poker?

As we all know the knowledge component in poker is quite large, but it's not a game of speed, timing, and coordination. How you throw your chips in the pot shouldn't mean much which also means that the execution component of poker should be quite small. And it's my contention that most of what the mental coaches like Tendler advocate are things that should help execution and not knowledge.

I have now throughly read Tendler's first book and have marked over 1,000 places in the book where I think his advice or comments has little value when related to poker. I have not read his second book but assume it has the same issues.

Best wishes,
Mason

That sounds pretty amazing. From a mathematical standpoint, you found almost six issues per page.

To be precise I made 1037 notes on my kindle. The last note occurs on page 229 (according to my kindle, a paperback might have a different number). Tendler wrote:

My note is: Once your understanding of all things poker is strong, none of this will happen.

If you like, now that you know I have 1037 notes, why don't you (or someone else) pick five or six numbers at random and I'll put up the corresponding note with my comment.

Best wishes,
Mason

For some reason, the version on my reader is only 169 pages. When I got this reader I was really in love with the idea of reading on it, but nothing beats the printed word.

Here are my numbers 1, 72, 135, 726, 1037.

Context is pretty important, don't you think. The section you quoted is a very appropriate caution to people who have finished the book. It is to let them know finishing the book is not the end of the journey, but rather the start.

It is kind of funny because Amazon shows print version is 241 pages while Kindle version is 262. Barnes and Noble shows print version is 264, but I don't know how many pages Nook version is because it shows file size and not page count.

Or maybe it's his way of telling potential customers that they'll need to purchase a lot of sessions.

Mason

Hi Alternate Identity:

Here goes.

No. 1. Tendler wrote:

My comment: This statement comes out of nowhere with no proof given.

-------------

No. 72. Tendler wrote:

After the word "poorly" I have Note No. 71 which is:

But how do you know they're playing poorly? Poor results in the short run do not necessarily mean bad play. But in the long run they do.

Then after the word "happens: I have Note No. 72 which is:

Good point.

Not all my notes are negative.

---------------

No. 135. Tendler wrote:

My comment: No. It means your knowledge of all things poker needs to improve.

---------------------

No. 726. Tendler wrote:

My comment: This is just not understanding the short term luck factor and improving that understanding should resolve this issue.

----------------

No. 1037 I gave in an earlier post, so instead here is note 937. Tendler wrote:

My comment: But are you playing your hands differently? If not, then this statement is wrong.

Best wishes,
Mason

Sounds plausible, but who knows. The fact remains you did not give the quote proper context in my opinion.

Sorry for the typo of 1037. It was supposed to be 1035.

Elements of Poker is worth a read for its prose alone.

RE: Mental Game of Poker. I borrowed it from the library and I felt immediately like it was not a book for me. As I read, I felt as though I was reading pseudo-science and I chose not to finish it.

I found the language of EOP to be too flowery and Positive Poker to be too dry. Mental Game was a nice balance between the two in my opinion.

For what it is worth on Amazon, EOP has fifty-six reviews with a score of 4.3/5 while Mental has one-hundred and fourteen reviews with a score of 4.6/5. Positive Poker has thirteen reviews with a score of 4.2/5 while the follow up, Peak Performance Poker, by that author has six reviews with a score of 5/5.

But Positive Poker has a favorable editorial review by the man, Alan Schoonmaker, who literally wrote the book on poker psychology, Psychology of Poker.

Are you still going to write your own mental game book Mason?

I suspect the question is a level, but...


http://www.twoplustwo.com/books/poke...er-psychology/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...ology-1575716/

Had to dig to find the above.

It is #464 in poker books on Amazon.

I told Alan Schoonmaker that he was very foolish to write that review. I had previously met with him to explain why, in my opinion, Positive Poker was complete garbage, but he didn't want to listen.

Mason

Nice ninja edit.

This thread has led me to another book that seems to be on the subject and I will be getting it soon.

Poker, Life and Other Confusing Things by Arthur Reber.

It's been over 20 years but I did some consulting on a different book for Arthur Reber, but have not read the title you mention.

Mason

I am guessing the book was The New Gambler's Bible.