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Old 02-19-2010, 06:07 AM   #1
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Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

I want the book with deep math analyse, but it's not really important. I have already read Winning Poker Tournaments 1 hand at a time ( the best I think ) , Harrington on Holdem 3 volumes and Tournament poker by Sklansky.

Maybe can you tell me how both this books could help me?


P.S. sorry my bad english, hope you understood me.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:46 AM   #2
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Kill Everyone! Killer poker by number migth be ok content wise, but it is practically unreadable.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:14 AM   #3
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by hellweed View Post
Kill Everyone! Killer poker by number migth be ok content wise, but it is practically unreadable.
+1 Kill Everyone is a great book. Make sure you buy the second edition of the book!
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:42 AM   #4
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Ok I'll try to have a copy of this and read it.
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:21 AM   #5
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Could you illustrate what do you mean by the words "practically unreadable" for the Killer Poker book?
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:39 AM   #6
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Notation is non-standard, but that can be overlooked, the thing is, that he spends a lot of time on fluff like stating that this is very difficult material, but don't worry, if you put in the effort then you'll master it .. etc etc .. and in the end you end up with 20-30 page chapters that could have been 2-3 pages long.

But then again I'm perhaps not in his target audience. Dunno .. but Kill Everyone is a good book no matter what, so if you have to make a choice, imo it is easy.
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:02 AM   #7
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Kill Everyone = one of the best poker books period.

Killer Poker By The Numbers = marginal at best.

You decide.

BTW, the ONLY poker book with significant deep math in it is The Mathematics Of Poker. However, I firmly believe that if you don't have a college math degree (or in some relatied field like physics) you simply will not be able to understand the book. If you are looking for a book with a reasonable about of math stuff in it that a normal smart person can follow I suggest No Limit Hold'em Theory & Practice.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:49 AM   #8
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by hellweed View Post
Kill Everyone! Killer poker by number migth be ok content wise, but it is practically unreadable.
+1
kill everyone rocks
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:09 AM   #9
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

thx guys.
I choose to order kill everyone and mathematics of poker.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:54 PM   #10
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by Niediam View Post
Kill Everyone = one of the best poker books period.

Killer Poker By The Numbers = marginal at best.

You decide.

BTW, the ONLY poker book with significant deep math in it is The Mathematics Of Poker. However, I firmly believe that if you don't have a college math degree (or in some relatied field like physics) you simply will not be able to understand the book. If you are looking for a book with a reasonable about of math stuff in it that a normal smart person can follow I suggest No Limit Hold'em Theory & Practice.
This ^^^^^
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:13 AM   #11
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Kill me here and Kill me there
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:33 PM   #12
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Killer Poker By The Numbers made me want to kill myself. Bill Chens book is supposed to be much better.

Personally, a Card Runners video series called 'Back To Math Class' done a great job for me.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:02 AM   #13
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by Ratboy View Post
+1 Kill Everyone is a great book. Make sure you buy the second edition of the book!
the new stuff is elky's section right? how good is that and is it worth getting if I already have the old edition?
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:10 PM   #14
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

these books are very different kill everyone is more of a approach to tournament poker. Killer poker looks at poker from a mathematical perspective. I wouldn't say killer poker is one of the easier books to read but it does have some valuable insight.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:40 PM   #15
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

Also there's a difference between 'Tournament Killer Poker By The Numbers' and 'Killer Poker By The Numbers.' The titles are self-explanatory. I'm surprised nobody brought that up since it looks as though OP is interested in tournament poker.
From what I remember about Killer Poker, it covered mainly NL Cash situations with a relatively small section on tournaments. Sure, the layout could take some time to get used to, but it's not that bad really and gets the job done. I actually liked the book overall.
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:58 PM   #16
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Also there's a difference between 'Tournament Killer Poker By The Numbers' and 'Killer Poker By The Numbers.' The titles are self-explanatory. I'm surprised nobody brought that up since it looks as though OP is interested in tournament poker.
From what I remember about Killer Poker, it covered mainly NL Cash situations with a relatively small section on tournaments. Sure, the layout could take some time to get used to, but it's not that bad really and gets the job done. I actually liked the book overall.
Good point about the two editions. The charts in the book are not easy to follow without a math background but i did enjoy both books.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:14 AM   #17
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

a lot of what is in killer poker by the numbers can be found on www.flopturnriver.com
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:19 AM   #18
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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a lot of what is in killer poker by the numbers can be found on www.flopturnriver.com
and all of what is in killer poker can be found on this forum, just a matter of searching or reading the stickies in the strategy forums...
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:27 PM   #19
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Killer Poker By The Numbers made me want to kill myself.
lol.. I perused this John Vorhaus' guy books at Borders book store and it almost made me vomit
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:03 AM   #20
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by Niediam View Post
Kill Everyone = one of the best poker books period.

Killer Poker By The Numbers = marginal at best.
Sounds about right to me.

I loved kill everyone.
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:29 AM   #21
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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and all of what is in killer poker can be found on this forum, just a matter of searching or reading the stickies in the strategy forums...
not all. some of the simulations he used to write the end of the book are pretty impressive, it's the only place i've found a detailed analysis of the impact of clumping in poker situations (the idea of "if everyone before me folded and i'm on the button, are the blinds more likely to have big hands?"). and that's not the sort of thing you can easily calculate, vorhaus actually used a supercomputer to run through a billion hands. the results aren't earth-shattering but they also aren't covered anywhere else.

plus there's not really any threads on the forums that take the time to explain how to do combinatorics math/equity calculations/etc and provide tons of examples, which KPBTN does.

neither of those topics are elementary and i've seen posts on these forums where high stakes, respected players screw up on both of those topics. that said i haven't read Kill Everyone so I can't say how the two stack up.
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:33 AM   #22
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by mrPeterNorth View Post
lol.. I perused this John Vorhaus' guy books at Borders book store and it almost made me vomit
Did you bother to check whether Vorhaus actually wrote Killer Poker by The Numbers?

Well FWIW the author is Tony Guerrera, and he actually knows what he's talking about.
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:44 AM   #23
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by ecstzatic View Post
not all. some of the simulations he used to write the end of the book are pretty impressive, it's the only place i've found a detailed analysis of the impact of clumping in poker situations (the idea of "if everyone before me folded and i'm on the button, are the blinds more likely to have big hands?"). and that's not the sort of thing you can easily calculate, vorhaus actually used a supercomputer to run through a billion hands. the results aren't earth-shattering but they also aren't covered anywhere else.

plus there's not really any threads on the forums that take the time to explain how to do combinatorics math/equity calculations/etc and provide tons of examples, which KPBTN does.

neither of those topics are elementary and i've seen posts on these forums where high stakes, respected players screw up on both of those topics. that said i haven't read Kill Everyone so I can't say how the two stack up.
I've seen that stuff covered on these forums before, I'm not saying the author (once again, Guerrera, not Vorhaus) didn't do a good job.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:53 PM   #24
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Re: Killer Poker by The Numbers vs Killing Everyone?

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Originally Posted by Benny Cake View Post
Killer Poker By The Numbers made me want to kill myself. Bill Chens book is supposed to be much better.

Personally, a Card Runners video series called 'Back To Math Class' done a great job for me.
If Killer Poker By The Numbers makes you want to kill yourself, I can't imagine what MoP would do then to you...
I was just reading Killer Poker By The Numbers at barnes and noble this afternoon after previewing some various videos on sites as far as combos go this morning.
I love Kill Everyone but don't really see how you can compare the two. After reading it for a half hour I decided instead of 15 bucks on Killer Poker By The Numbers to just join one of these video sites for a month and see how that goes.
stoxpoker has some combo videos that you can preview on their site.
The value of By the Numbers is like what ecstzatic said from what i noticed, some unique stuff in there.
Not to mention the subject title doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive decision.
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