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Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread

11-13-2014 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryJustice
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. I decided to make Vol 1 all strategy and Vol 2 all examples so I didn't have to chop the book up in the middle, with Vol 1 being perhaps preflop/flop and Vol 2 being turn/river. I figured people would complain that Vol 1 was not complete. Maybe I should have just bit the bullet and made one 600 page book instead.
The problem isn't that the book required more examples, the problem, in my opinion, is the way in which the book is written. Instead of working with concepts that can be applied to many different situations, you seem to be working directly with the situations themselves. Thus you have a book that is far more complex than is necessary since each change, no matter how small, in the situation requires a different detailed write-up.

So while it's clear that you're certainly knowledgeable relative to the subject matter and probably play no-limit hold 'em cash games quite well, it seems to me that very few beginning/intermediate type players will be able to learn from this book.

Mason
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-13-2014 , 09:45 PM
I'm about to buy the book based on this criticism. I've read lots of concept books, so this sounds exactly like what I need now. I don't consider myself advanced though, maybe just willing to work hard on a book like this.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-14-2014 , 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
I'm about to buy the book based on this criticism. I've read lots of concept books, so this sounds exactly like what I need now. I don't consider myself advanced though, maybe just willing to work hard on a book like this.
Hi Tim:

If this is the case, this might be a very good book for you. Also, if you do read it, I'm sure a few people here would be interested in what your thoughts relative to this text are.

Best wishes,
Mason
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-14-2014 , 10:37 AM
Mason, have you read Jonathan's tournament book series? It's widely considered one of the best in the market. Curious to what your thoughts are on it
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-15-2014 , 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar77
Mason, have you read Jonathan's tournament book series? It's widely considered one of the best in the market. Curious to what your thoughts are on it
I have not.

Best wishes,
Mason
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-15-2014 , 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
I have not.

Best wishes,
Mason
Maybe during your vacation you can read it and do a review but then if you did that it wouldn't be a vacation.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-15-2014 , 09:48 AM
I'm a big fan of Mr Little's content, but would emphatically share Mr Malmoth's criticism of the way information is presented. (Not a valid criticism for Jon's 2014 WSOP ME selected hands book, however, which presents its content really nicely.)
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meal
I'm a big fan of Mr Little's content, but would emphatically share Mr Malmoth's criticism of the way information is presented. (Not a valid criticism for Jon's 2014 WSOP ME selected hands book, however, which presents its content really nicely.)
I wonder if the success of his tournament series led Jonathan's publisher to rush this book to market.

Last edited by Doc T River; 11-15-2014 at 10:16 AM. Reason: who is Mr. Malmoth?
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-15-2014 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc T River
I wonder if the success of his tournament series led Jonathan's publisher to rush this book to market.
This was actually the first book that I was somewhat slow to write. Normally I knock out a book in around 2 weeks of hard work but this one took much longer because deep-stacked cash games are much more difficult compared to tournaments mostly because you should tend to push most edges whereas in tournaments, being passive in big pots is usually not a bad idea.

There is never any rush from the publishers at all because I do my work quickly and diligently. For example, if I was to start writing a book today, my deadline would perhaps be 3/31/2015. I would for sure have the book finished by 12/15/2014. That is just how I am.

I am quite proud of the cash game book (the entire Vol 1 and 2). It digs deep into a super tough game that most other books to quantify with a few basic rules. My goal in writing this book was certainly not to present a basic formula for "winning" or to appeal to people who want to be spoon fed.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-16-2014 , 10:44 AM
You want to become a better player and move up the stakes you have to work hard and study,
So far this thread seems to be a bitching match at the fact when you buy this book you'll have to engage your mind and work hard,very hard at your game.
I've just bought Will Tiptons' book,it's far from easy,I fact it's head wrecking but I'm not going to complain about the book or the author,I'm going to get stuck in post questions,study and improve.
I also have all Jonathans' books and I can say with them and hard work i have become a winning player and I have a better understanding of the game.
If you get stuck post your question,Jonathan will always reply as Will does and Matthew Jauda does.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-16-2014 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom1
You want to become a better player and move up the stakes you have to work hard and study,
So far this thread seems to be a bitching match at the fact when you buy this book you'll have to engage your mind and work hard,very hard at your game.
I've just bought Will Tiptons' book,it's far from easy,I fact it's head wrecking but I'm not going to complain about the book or the author,I'm going to get stuck in post questions,study and improve.
I also have all Jonathans' books and I can say with them and hard work i have become a winning player and I have a better understanding of the game.
If you get stuck post your question,Jonathan will always reply as Will does and Matthew Jauda does.
This is the attitude I want all of my students to take. I think people have been fooled by books that take a day or two to completely read and process. While you can learn a few tips in a day, it is difficult to learn how to play the entire game reasonably well. Hard work is required to get good at poker. If you expect to get a ton from JL on Live NL Cash by skimming through it in a day, you will be disappointed.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-16-2014 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryJustice
This is the attitude I want all of my students to take. I think people have been fooled by books that take a day or two to completely read and process. While you can learn a few tips in a day, it is difficult to learn how to play the entire game reasonably well. Hard work is required to get good at poker. If you expect to get a ton from JL on Live NL Cash by skimming through it in a day, you will be disappointed.
I think I heard someone once say the game takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to master.

If someone is learning from a book they can finish in a day or two, they need to find a new book. And burn the old one.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-16-2014 , 07:57 PM
I have never been so satisfied...to find out that this book and others mentioned frequently here are considered the bar. To find out that others are learning from these books. You all (authors) have only communicated the basics. I am absolutely thrilled about the level of contentment with these books.

JL you have a poker mind, but you are an infant in the game. Unfortunately (or fortunately...depending on how you look at it) for you, you had many huge leaks plugged early on and that allowed you to soar in the game and not constantly go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate everything over and over and over. You have completely missed the true poker train.

I am here to tell you that your book wins, and your book's "players" can win...but they suck. balls.

If no one has ever told you to up your game, well here it is for free. UP YOUR GAME SON!

added for edit and unrelated: doc, i'm going to crush your soul.

Last edited by Citi; 11-16-2014 at 07:59 PM. Reason: one more thing...
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-16-2014 , 08:06 PM
you know what...i'm not happy. i'm just dying to crush alot of people in poker.

hope nobody takes this rant personal...it should be deleted actually. i haven't provided a review or critique...it couldn't be learned anyway.

added for edit and unrelated: doc, i'm still gonna crush your soul.

Last edited by Citi; 11-16-2014 at 08:07 PM. Reason: one more thing:
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-18-2014 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citi
I have never been so satisfied...to find out that this book and others mentioned frequently here are considered the bar. To find out that others are learning from these books. You all (authors) have only communicated the basics. I am absolutely thrilled about the level of contentment with these books.

JL you have a poker mind, but you are an infant in the game. Unfortunately (or fortunately...depending on how you look at it) for you, you had many huge leaks plugged early on and that allowed you to soar in the game and not constantly go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate everything over and over and over. You have completely missed the true poker train.

I am here to tell you that your book wins, and your book's "players" can win...but they suck. balls.

If no one has ever told you to up your game, well here it is for free. UP YOUR GAME SON!

added for edit and unrelated: doc, i'm going to crush your soul.
I have no clue what any of this rant means. Welcome to 2+2 I suppose.

Fwiw, I started off not knowing how to play at all. I was naturally a super nit. I had to have almost the nuts in order to put a chip in the pot. I eventually figured out that being a nit doesn't work. My "natural" strategy certainly was not ideal.

Also, I have had a few fairly large downswings throughout my career. I overcame these downswings by dropping down in stakes and spending a ton of time studying the winning players in my games. Once, I was down to my last $10,000 as a 19 year old (not counting the money I just put down on a condo, which was probably a bad decision) and dropped down from the $200 sngs to the $10 sngs. I decided that I would win 100 buy-ins at each level before moving up to the next level. After a few months of hard grinding, I found myself doing well in the $1,000 games.

While lots of big name pros start off their careers with a big tournament score, I never had that. I started with $50 and ground it up playing limit holdem and then sngs. It took around 4.5 years before I had my first big score for $320,000 in a WPT event. I think I was lucky to win later in my career. If you have it easy, you don't really know how bad things can get.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-18-2014 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryJustice
I have no clue what any of this rant means. Welcome to 2+2 I suppose.

Fwiw, I started off not knowing how to play at all. I was naturally a super nit. I had to have almost the nuts in order to put a chip in the pot. I eventually figured out that being a nit doesn't work. My "natural" strategy certainly was not ideal.

Also, I have had a few fairly large downswings throughout my career. I overcame these downswings by dropping down in stakes and spending a ton of time studying the winning players in my games. Once, I was down to my last $10,000 as a 19 year old (not counting the money I just put down on a condo, which was probably a bad decision) and dropped down from the $200 sngs to the $10 sngs. I decided that I would win 100 buy-ins at each level before moving up to the next level. After a few months of hard grinding, I found myself doing well in the $1,000 games.

While lots of big name pros start off their careers with a big tournament score, I never had that. I started with $50 and ground it up playing limit holdem and then sngs. It took around 4.5 years before I had my first big score for $320,000 in a WPT event. I think I was lucky to win later in my career. If you have it easy, you don't really know how bad things can get.
The only thing I can explain to you is his desire to crush my soul. As to the rest, you are on your own.

If Citi is really a big stud in poker, he should reveal his identity so people can verify his claims.

Probably won't get this book but I will be getting your Main Event book as I am not really a cash game player.

Last edited by Doc T River; 11-18-2014 at 11:37 AM. Reason: I like the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-19-2014 , 10:22 AM
Working hard is only half the equation. The other half is to work smart to maximise the efficiency of your work. If you work hard but not smart, your effort will not yield much results and therefore will be inefficient. A well organised book lowers the time needed for the reader to get returns. No one wants to spend two hours for something when they can get the same results in one.

Note: this isn't a criticism of Jonathan Little's book. I haven't read it but I have no doubt that the book is excellent based on the reviews so far. Just a general remark.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-19-2014 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citi
I have never been so satisfied...to find out that this book and others mentioned frequently here are considered the bar. To find out that others are learning from these books. You all (authors) have only communicated the basics. I am absolutely thrilled about the level of contentment with these books.

JL you have a poker mind, but you are an infant in the game. Unfortunately (or fortunately...depending on how you look at it) for you, you had many huge leaks plugged early on and that allowed you to soar in the game and not constantly go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate everything over and over and over. You have completely missed the true poker train.

I am here to tell you that your book wins, and your book's "players" can win...but they suck. balls.

If no one has ever told you to up your game, well here it is for free. UP YOUR GAME SON!

added for edit and unrelated: doc, i'm going to crush your soul.
Wat
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-19-2014 , 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryJustice
I have no clue what any of this rant means. Welcome to 2+2 I suppose.

Fwiw, I started off not knowing how to play at all. I was naturally a super nit. I had to have almost the nuts in order to put a chip in the pot. I eventually figured out that being a nit doesn't work. My "natural" strategy certainly was not ideal.

Also, I have had a few fairly large downswings throughout my career. I overcame these downswings by dropping down in stakes and spending a ton of time studying the winning players in my games. Once, I was down to my last $10,000 as a 19 year old (not counting the money I just put down on a condo, which was probably a bad decision) and dropped down from the $200 sngs to the $10 sngs. I decided that I would win 100 buy-ins at each level before moving up to the next level. After a few months of hard grinding, I found myself doing well in the $1,000 games.

While lots of big name pros start off their careers with a big tournament score, I never had that. I started with $50 and ground it up playing limit holdem and then sngs. It took around 4.5 years before I had my first big score for $320,000 in a WPT event. I think I was lucky to win later in my career. If you have it easy, you don't really know how bad things can get.
Good reply. This Citi guy is just a troll - mod should just delete his posts and profile and he is not contributing anything useful to this board.

My guess is that he probably is not a good poker player either. Seriously, who the heck talks like that?
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-19-2014 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryJustice
I have no clue what any of this rant means. Welcome to 2+2 I suppose.

Fwiw, I started off not knowing how to play at all. I was naturally a super nit. I had to have almost the nuts in order to put a chip in the pot. I eventually figured out that being a nit doesn't work. My "natural" strategy certainly was not ideal.

Also, I have had a few fairly large downswings throughout my career. I overcame these downswings by dropping down in stakes and spending a ton of time studying the winning players in my games. Once, I was down to my last $10,000 as a 19 year old (not counting the money I just put down on a condo, which was probably a bad decision) and dropped down from the $200 sngs to the $10 sngs. I decided that I would win 100 buy-ins at each level before moving up to the next level. After a few months of hard grinding, I found myself doing well in the $1,000 games.

While lots of big name pros start off their careers with a big tournament score, I never had that. I started with $50 and ground it up playing limit holdem and then sngs. It took around 4.5 years before I had my first big score for $320,000 in a WPT event. I think I was lucky to win later in my career. If you have it easy, you don't really know how bad things can get.
Great response, IMO.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-22-2014 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryJustice
I have no clue what any of this rant means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc T River
As to the rest, you are on your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strongrad50
Wat


exactly
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-25-2014 , 11:42 PM
Jonathan, that book was incredible. Can't wait for volume 2. Also, played with your dad in pensacola before. Super nice guy. Respected in that room and city.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
11-26-2014 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
Jonathan, that book was incredible. Can't wait for volume 2. Also, played with your dad in pensacola before. Super nice guy. Respected in that room and city.
Thanks! I am glad you enjoyed it. My dad is fun.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
01-02-2015 , 06:44 PM
Preordered volume 2 right before Christmas. Can't wait 👍
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote
01-04-2015 , 07:15 PM
FWIW, Mason reviewed this book in this month's 2Plus2 Magazine.
Jonathan Little on Live Cash Games Volume One: The Theory REVIEW thread Quote

      
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