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Old 05-14-2014, 03:15 PM   #1
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Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Tracking is showing several folks that went for domestic Priority mail shipping received their books today, so here is the official review and discussion thread!
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:49 PM   #2
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Ok lads fire up the discussion,,I'm waiting for the kindle version so I'm interested to hear your opinions
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:15 AM   #3
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Congrats to Dan and Bill on updating two classic books (Vol 1 & 2) with a fresh look at tournament poker. Well done.

Just started reading it and like other Harrington/Robertie books, it's easy to read, understand and apply to your game.

My only beef with the book so far are the examples:
"Example 2-12. You're in a live tournament on the second level of the first day. Blinds are 50 and 100, and you have 22,000, a little more than your starting stack."

Really?
I've got 22k at blind levels 50/100? I must be a genius - because in the $365 & $350 tourneys I play in - I'm ecstatic to have 11k at this level!!!

So far, most of the examples I've seen are geared for the WSOP or WPT main events. Obviously, early levels in these events play much, much different than the regular stack events.

In the WSOP circuit events - 10 out of 12 tournies offer a starting stack of 10k or less. THESE are the tournies that the cash game regs I know play the most. Would have been nice to give a nod to these tournies as well as the main events.

Maybe, it would have been better to split the book in half between regular and deep-stack tournies... and maybe it does... like I said, just started reading it.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:22 AM   #4
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara View Post

My only beef with the book so far are the examples:
"Example 2-12. You're in a live tournament on the second level of the first day. Blinds are 50 and 100, and you have 22,000, a little more than your starting stack."

Really?
I've got 22k at blind levels 50/100? I must be a genius - because in the $365 & $350 tourneys I play in - I'm ecstatic to have 11k at this level!!!

So far, most of the examples I've seen are geared for the WSOP or WPT main events. Obviously, early levels in these events play much, much different than the regular stack events.

In the WSOP circuit events - 10 out of 12 tournies offer a starting stack of 10k or less. THESE are the tournies that the cash game regs I know play the most. Would have been nice to give a nod to these tournies as well as the main events.

Maybe, it would have been better to split the book in half between regular and deep-stack tournies... and maybe it does... like I said, just started reading it.
It clearly states a little more than starting stack. Does it really make that big of a difference if they use a 10k or 20k starting stack for the example? I personally know of many tournaments with a <$500 buy in that offer 15k, 20k, 25, 30k starting stacks. I think 10k starting stacks aren't as common as you think.

How is a 10k starting stack that starts at 25/25 or 25/50 not deep stacked?
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:25 AM   #5
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

So far is the book geared towards live play?

Where as most online I'd be starting shorter stacked
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:48 PM   #6
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco View Post
It clearly states a little more than starting stack. Does it really make that big of a difference if they use a 10k or 20k starting stack for the example? I personally know of many tournaments with a <$500 buy in that offer 15k, 20k, 25, 30k starting stacks. I think 10k starting stacks aren't as common as you think.

How is a 10k starting stack that starts at 25/25 or 25/50 not deep stacked?
Stack sizes aren't relevant IMO. He's just saying it's pretty rare to be in spots where you have 220BB when you've "increased your stack a little bit" and haven't doubled through someone.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:39 PM   #7
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

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Stack sizes aren't relevant IMO. He's just saying it's pretty rare to be in spots where you have 220BB when you've "increased your stack a little bit" and haven't doubled through someone.
I understood what he was saying and I'm saying it isn't rare to be in that circumstance from my experience.

I'm playing in a multi day tournament tomorrow and we start with 30K at 25/50.

I'm not sure what tournaments you guys are playing but they don't seem to be a good value.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:25 PM   #8
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

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I understood what he was saying and I'm saying it isn't rare to be in that circumstance from my experience.

I'm playing in a multi day tournament tomorrow and we start with 30K at 25/50.

I'm not sure what tournaments you guys are playing but they don't seem to be a good value.
Hurrah for you! You're privileged to have deep stack tournies where you live (prolly Vegas).
But in the Mid West and South... basically the rest of the world... most events offer 10k starting stacks (or less) with 30 min blind levels.
If you don't think that makes a big difference - then you haven't played these events. Sure in the 1st three levels - you're "deep stacked" - but by the second hour, it's 25/100/200 - and if you misplay ONE hand (or got sucked out on), you're on short stack mode. By level 7 - if you haven't chipped up, you're in push/fold mode.

As far as the tournies being "good value" - I agree they suck. But they're the most affordable - and the only ones available.

Would have been nice to have Dan/Bill offer some strategies on how to best play your hands in less cushy circumstances.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:57 PM   #9
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara View Post
Hurrah for you! You're privileged to have deep stack tournies where you live (prolly Vegas).
But in the Mid West and South... basically the rest of the world... most events offer 10k starting stacks (or less) with 30 min blind levels.
If you don't think that makes a big difference - then you haven't played these events. Sure in the 1st three levels - you're "deep stacked" - but by the second hour, it's 25/100/200 - and if you misplay ONE hand (or got sucked out on), you're on short stack mode. By level 7 - if you haven't chipped up, you're in push/fold mode.

As far as the tournies being "good value" - I agree they suck. But they're the most affordable - and the only ones available.

Would have been nice to have Dan/Bill offer some strategies on how to best play your hands in less cushy circumstances.
There's lots of material in the book on how to play when you're short stacked.

Mason
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:14 PM   #10
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

When will the kindle version be out?
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:24 PM   #11
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

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When will the kindle version be out?
Two to four weeks.

Best wishes,
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:08 AM   #12
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"If you have the nuts on the river, you mostly want to push all-in"

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Old 05-16-2014, 10:26 AM   #13
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara View Post
Hurrah for you! You're privileged to have deep stack tournies where you live (prolly Vegas).
I live in the south thanks.

Look I'm not trying to debate tournament structure in this thread. The point is that in the example you quoted does it really matter if you have 110bbs or 200bbs? Do you really have a different strategy for the two sizes? I'm going to say that you don't because they basically play the same at this stage in the tournament.

If you can't take the example given in a book and relate it to a situation that you have encountered or will encounter then maybe books aren't for you? I just think you are nit picking by saying "I've got 22k at blind levels 50/100? I must be a genius - because in the $365 & $350 tourneys I play in - I'm ecstatic to have 11k at this level!!!". Try not to get so emotional and excited when you get 11k from 10k SS.

Now that we are done with that....how is the book?
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:47 AM   #14
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

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I live in the south thanks.

Look I'm not trying to debate tournament structure in this thread. The point is that in the example you quoted does it really matter if you have 110bbs or 200bbs? Do you really have a different strategy for the two sizes? I'm going to say that you don't because they basically play the same at this stage in the tournament.

If you can't take the example given in a book and relate it to a situation that you have encountered or will encounter then maybe books aren't for you? I just think you are nit picking by saying "I've got 22k at blind levels 50/100? I must be a genius - because in the $365 & $350 tourneys I play in - I'm ecstatic to have 11k at this level!!!". Try not to get so emotional and excited when you get 11k from 10k SS.

Now that we are done with that....how is the book?

I would debate that strategy does differ if you have 110bbs or 200bbs but I agree its up to the reader to relate to it. If you have to, divide the bbs in half or double up the blinds etc
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:06 PM   #15
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

There is a huge difference in being 220bbs deep having only slightly increased you stack and being 220bbs deep from a double up. If you've already doubled up then you likely have most people covered and will be playing with ~110b effective stack in many of the hands you play. If you have 220bbs and that is the average stack, a majority of your hands will be played 220bbs deep which of course requires a different strategy.
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:46 AM   #16
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

What is the big deal? The wording of the example seems pretty clear starting stacks were 20,000. Whole bunch of arguing about nothing in here.
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:28 PM   #17
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Two to four weeks.

Best wishes,
Mason
Hurry up!
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Old 05-19-2014, 01:03 PM   #18
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Is the book more geared toward live play or is it relevant for online play?
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:13 AM   #19
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Definately geared towards live play if you ask me. I've started reading it last week and it hasn't mentioned anything about online games.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:18 AM   #20
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Has anyone else started reading this book or maybe even finished it? Although at over 500 pages I'm not sure that's possible. So far it is definately a looser strategy than his first tournament books, MUCH looser if you ask me. I guess "tight is right" really isn't right any longer?
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #21
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

I already started to read it, quite disapointing for the time being, very basic stuff, short paragraph not detailled...I know now why I did not have any answer to this post. I will give my own answer when I will finish it. I give a chance to the following chapters

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/42...-book-1427675/
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:09 AM   #22
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafauriea View Post
I already started to read it, quite disapointing for the time being, very basic stuff, short paragraph not detailled...I know now why I did not have any answer to this post. I will give my own answer when I will finish it. I give a chance to the following chapters

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/42...-book-1427675/
On page 2 it says the following:

Quote:
“Part One: Understanding the Basis of NLH Tournament Poker” explains the basics of no-limit hold ’em tournaments. If you’ve never played no-limit hold ’em or hold ’em tournaments, or have only played a little but don’t feel you have a real grasp of the game, this section is must reading. If you’re a pretty experienced player, feel free to skip it.
Mason
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:14 AM   #23
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

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Originally Posted by chinagambler View Post
Is the book more geared toward live play or is it relevant for online play?
Its geared towards poker.

This might just be me, but I really don't get why this question comes up in every book thread. Surely they are both very transferable.

Looking forward to more reviews...
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:58 AM   #24
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

So far the reviews aren't good,

Was looking forward to this book,I thought the responses would be better.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:27 PM   #25
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Re: Harrington on Modern Tournament Poker Review and discussion

Got my copy! Taking my time reading it (including Part 1) so no real review yet. So far is what I expected. Easy to read and clear to apply without being condescending or repetitive. Pretty basic in Part 1, but hey why not touch up?

On a side note by cover arrived damaged, hopefully can get a replacement. Will see.
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