I am a losing player in micro stakes. I read Harrington on online cash games and it didn't really help me improve my game.

I play the tight hand range in his book, I try to steal the blinds when I have the opportunity. I player tighter against 40+ vpp players and wait for those premium hands. I steal blinds more against 10-20 vpp players. I give my opponents not the pot odds to chase their straights or flushes. I calculate my own pot odds when I am on a draw and try to also figure out if I have implied odds.

Yet I am still a losing player.

I was wondering if Mathematics of Poker would help me beat micro stakes. Because I will memorize it if I have too.

I've got it on order, personally, but from what I can tell, the answer would likely be "probably not".

But in order to get a better recommendation, you need to give more detail about yourself. In particular, what other books have you read? How many hands have you played? How much have you made use of the forums here?

It's quite possible that posting hands and receiving feedback will be more helpful to you than a book. Reading a book, if that's all you do, doesn't let you test your understanding. Posting a hand that you have questions about, and explaining why you played it that way, will allow you to find the errors in your thinking. Books don't tell you when you misunderstand them!

(Edit: And it won't be me helping you with book suggestions - my reading has mostly been fixed limit!)

Mathematics Of Poker is a very advanced book with little dirext advice on how to play, it will almost certainly not do anyting for you at this point. Have a look at The Poker Blueprint, it is a good book for microstakes. Also as stated above posting hands in the micro stakes forum, and reading analysis of other hands may help you more than books will. Another alternative are training video sites.

Inga

I played about 60k hands. I have been consistently losing on my last 30k hands. Harrington is the only book I have read.

I did browse this forum a little bit. But I can not post every single hand here. I have read the examples in Harrington but overal I didn't find them useful cause either I won't remember them or I can't apply them in real life situations.

Mathematics of Poker is definitely the wrong choice. It's one of the most complicated and abstract books on the market - a lot of it feels like it was written more for bored MIT math majors than poker players. There's a lot of interesting stuff related to mathematics, but very little that would be applied in "real time" at the table.

If cash games are your thing, I'd suggest Small Stakes No Limit Hold'em and Professional No Limit Hold'em Volume One. If you can understand and and use the advice and suggestions put forth in those books, you should be able to begin winning at micro/small stakes.

It's not easy - even though both books are well written imho, NLHE is a complicated game. There's no easy quick fix, and no amount of intense studying is going to turn you into a game crusher fast, no matter how hard you work.

Start with the other books recommended, I'd say Mathematics of Poker should go pretty far down on the "books to read" list. There are the few essentials, then plenty of non-essential quality works, then Mathematics of Poker, then trash books just trying to cash in.

it will basically help you with how to think about constructing a balanced range. what to do with certain part of your range etc.

"memorizing" won't do you much good. It's not a play-by-play guide in which they tell you "defend x from the bb" etc. If you're looking for such content try one of the million books out there that does that.

Memorizing examples will not be helpful, as it won't tell you when they are relevant. Poker is an act, not a fact. You have to practice making good decisions and thinking valid thoughts when faced with a unique hand. The best way to do that is to have your thoughts challenged (or validated) by other people. Obviously you won't post every hand. Post some that you think are close calls, and see if they really ARE close calls. Learn to think about the details that the decent players giving you feedback are thinking about.

Think more than you play!

Good luck on the journey.

So the final verdict is that Mathematics of Poker won't help me with microstakes at all. And I should read the books that are suggested in this thread.

it will help you a lot but not the way you're looking to be helped.
it won't give you hand-charts of instructions on exactly what to do with a certain hand.

I just want to know if I'll get results that I can apply to microstakes. It does not have to be exact instructions what to do each time.

I don't want to waste any effort if it isn't going to guarantee me any results.

it will teach you how to construct your own strategies. it will give you very little that you can read + duplicate on your table without doing some work yourself.

it's about how to think about poker and how to build a pokergame. It's not like any other book or video out there, which i think is what you're looking at when you talk about "guarantee" "help me at microstakes" etc.
Poker is poker. People are just better at higher stakes.

Alright well thanks a lot.

I am just reluctant because I already read Harrington and I thought it was regarded as one the best books on poker. Yet it I didn't see any immediate results in my play.

And I thought well maybe if I learn a more mathematical way to approach this game, I can be a consistent albeit unspectacular winner.

if you're not deadset on reading books i would suggest getting a trial at a site like deucescracked or similar. most books that try to give hand-charts and playbyplay are mostly superfluous and better suited for videoformat.

If you wan't to learn more about math as it's used in poker i suggest the videoseries mathematics of no-limit holdem by wiltontilt. It's not at all as sophisticated as mathematics of poker (the book) but i think it's a decent place to start if you're a new player.

Do you mean 40+ VPIP? If so, and if you have position on them, playing looser is the correct adjustment, not playing tighter.

Poker is a high variance game. Results can be hard to notice when they're masked by a lot of variability.

To clarify this somewhat, Harrington on Hold'em, Volume 1 and 2, are generally regarded among the best books in poker, because they basically changed the way tournaments were played and raised the overall quality of mediocre players. Those books are poker classics, and if you're going to play tournaments, probably a great place to start. Reading HoH turned me from a losing tournament player to a marginally winning one (note I'm not sure it would do that in todays game, HoH vol. 1 is eight years old at this point).

Harrington on Online Cash Games is much less impressive. It's not bad in my opinion, but it's far from the "Instant Smash Hit Classic" of HoH vol 1 and 2.

thanks alot. I thought you had to wait for the premium hands.


but I just dont feel that I am playing better poker or even differently then what I used. I am still on my own when it comes to decisions. Actually I didn't really get any new info at all from it.

Like you, I have read harrington on cash games before and didn't feel like I got anything out of it. I'd recommend checking out the poker blueprint, which to me seems far more informative and useful than harrington's books.

You didn't get anything out of Harrington's book because it's for complete beginners. I recommend Poker Blueprint and don't recommend Mathematics of Poker. MOP speaks more about toy games than real poker games.

I agree.... at its current length MOP is okay. If it was 50 pages shorter, it could have been good. If it were 150 pages shorter, it could have been great.

I get what they're going for, but it doesn't take two full pages to explain the odds of getting dealt AA, no matter how much math you use.

I think you got the wrong attitude about poker in general. Nobody can guarantee you any results, especially "immediate". You need to be in this to learn and solve the game. If your prime motivation is to just grind Rakeback you will not be able to do even that. I would suggest you read Easy Game Version 3 (its a lot cheaper now). And try to get into a study group, thats by far the best option especially for people looking for guidance. That will teach you a lot, but you got to really want to improve and understand, not just be a small winner for the money's sake. GL man!

No, I am ready to learn. I am doing it right now. I am memorizing the pot odds with standard sized bets, chances of drawing a flush, straight or any random x outer. Hand ranges at different vpip percentages.

IMO it's ok knowing what your odds of drawing to a flush with any 2 suited cards pre flop / knowing the pot odds for standard bet sizes etc, but you need to know how to intepret this information. Knowing the maths will help you determine whether it is correct to call a bet / how much you need to bet to be making a correct play etc. But in the examples given in beginners books like Harrington on Hold'em cash are all very abstract, i.e. just because there is a flush draw on the flop does not mean your opponents in the hand definitely have a flush draw etc...

OP I would recommend you go back to the problem sections in the Harrington book, particularly on post-flop play, and read through his analyses carefully. Cover up his analysis and try to work out what the best plays are for yourself, then see what Harrington says and compare. The thought processes and strategy is what is probably holding you back atm and this will help a lot more.

On the same note, I'd advise you to post in the micro stakes NLHE forum. Post a hand history for advice on the best strategies etc. There's also a thread there for you to post your stats (I assume you are using some kind of tracker if you are talking about opponents stats) in which people will review your play based on what you show them - you will be surprised at how much people can tell from a few overall stats like aggression factors and how often you win the pot if you see the flop.

Also, put The Mathematics of Poker aside for the time being. You will probably find that only a small amount of it is applicable for you at the moment - it is much more useful for tournament players looking for ways to fine tune plays rather than for beginners.

gl

Exactly. Play looser and value the hell out of these players and keep betting until they give you a reason not to. They will x/c away to the poor house.

If they limp, use Iso raises to get HU with them or thin out the field somewhat and punish them.

The poker blueprint has already been mentioned, another book that would definitely help you would be crushing the microstakes by blackrain79.