Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Books and Publications Discussion and reviews of books, videos, and magazines. Sponsored by TwoPlusTwoStore.com.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2010, 02:48 PM   #51
TrevRobCR
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 357
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

cwocwoc I'm convinced a pricey ebook isn't for you anyways. You seem to lack major fundamental concepts/understanding. I've told you flat out I've read several books. I prefer this book over them. Everyone is different. I've learned a ton from this book and it's helped my game the most. Yes, I've bought several e-books. Probably around $3k on e-books. Each time I've learned a concept that has helped me make up the cost over time, making it a good investment.

Why are you so hung up on results? I told you I've moved up 2 limits and taking shots at 400nl on the Cake network after reading Baluga's book and applying it concepts. I've said I don't credit all this to a simple book. Several is due to hard work, talking over hands with friends, etc. There is no magic pill like you expect. If you can find somewhere that tracks Cake network games I'd gladly give you my Cake names. Sorry, don't play cash on the main sites. Softer games on smaller sites such as Cake and Bodog.

Last post I'm making in this thread. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I personally learned from this book. It's the best I've read and helped my game the most. It may vary for others. You still have to apply yourself to he concepts. You get what you invest.
TrevRobCR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 04:07 PM   #52
Sean'
journeyman
 
Sean''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 392
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herrigel View Post
I don't know a single trustworthy guy, who ever banged a chick on Ibiza.
Sean' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:17 PM   #53
Cwocwoc
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,690
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelford View Post
That has been your point most of this thread, it's all about money and money making....poker becomes a matter of fun and development, the sense of going somewhere and improving, so I'm pretty sure that if you look up people who have bought all these expensive ebooks etc, you will find a large chunk of them shoving up with horrid graphs simply due to the fact that they push up in limits to the level where they are challenged....Tbh, I can't really get exited over a 2k purchase whatever it may be ... nor by people being jealous of ebooks authors making a nice income from those 2k purchases.

That's a completely specious argument.Poker players are measured by how much money they make though to Baluga's credit he is not as aggressive in his advertising as CTS and Tri.This is how they are trying to sell their books on their website :-

"Do you want to make $300/hour playing PLO?"
"Do You Want To Make $175K/year?"

I can believe that some people who buy these books have more money than sense but that's a different issue.
Cwocwoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:18 PM   #54
buzzcut
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 439
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

+1 LOL - Oops Cwocwoc posted before I did. The +1 LOL is to for photoshop and the thought of spending 4k on an island get away with hot chicks. Who can argue with that logic.

Cwocwoc - Gelford, TrevRobCR, Sean, and Breathweapon spell out the case for these books well and the different reasons people purchase them and their motivations. You happen to disagree, so be it. What they're saying makes lots of sense to me.

Last edited by buzzcut; 01-14-2010 at 10:30 PM.
buzzcut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:23 PM   #55
z3r0d
centurion
 
z3r0d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 144
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

So uh, it's been a little bit since I've posted....

102->260
z3r0d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:25 PM   #56
Cwocwoc
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,690
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevRobCR View Post
cwocwoc I'm convinced a pricey ebook isn't for you anyways. You seem to lack major fundamental concepts/understanding. I've told you flat out I've read several books. I prefer this book over them. Everyone is different. I've learned a ton from this book and it's helped my game the most. Yes, I've bought several e-books. Probably around $3k on e-books. Each time I've learned a concept that has helped me make up the cost over time, making it a good investment.

Why are you so hung up on results? I told you I've moved up 2 limits and taking shots at 400nl on the Cake network after reading Baluga's book and applying it concepts. I've said I don't credit all this to a simple book. Several is due to hard work, talking over hands with friends, etc. There is no magic pill like you expect. If you can find somewhere that tracks Cake network games I'd gladly give you my Cake names. Sorry, don't play cash on the main sites. Softer games on smaller sites such as Cake and Bodog.

Last post I'm making in this thread. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I personally learned from this book. It's the best I've read and helped my game the most. It may vary for others. You still have to apply yourself to he concepts. You get what you invest.
I can see why Cardrunners no longer require your srvices.Your customer relations skills leave a lot to be desired.We haven't discussed any concepts.Of course hard work correctly applied will get you somewhere if you're not thick in the first place but you don't need to spend thousands in books to get you there imo.It appears that your claims for your own game are completely unverifiable.Forgive me if I remain sceptical about them.
Cwocwoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:41 PM   #57
Jabbershot
grinder
 
Jabbershot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 495
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc View Post
"Do you want to make $300/hour playing PLO?"
"Do You Want To Make $175K/year?"
Seidman repeatedly claims that the first volume alone can make somebody $100 an hour.

This "volume" is more like a pamphlet: 28 pages about value betting, plus six pages on intro HU play. It adds up to about 9 bucks a page for what the author says is a guide to ABC poker. If you have read one of his "bet til they raise, then fold" lectures, you pretty much know what is coming during the non-HU part of the book.

While Seidman is a better writer than Tri Nguyen, he is not as good as Dusty Schmidt and way, way behind Ed Miller.

Last edited by Jabbershot; 01-14-2010 at 10:53 PM.
Jabbershot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:51 AM   #58
taw420
journeyman
 
taw420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 293
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Why do you guys keep feeding the obvious troll?

I read both volumes and agree that it really helped me understand concepts easier and I feel more comfortable/confident when I'm in a hand.

This book (both volumes) along with improva's book and a DC membership is a deadly combo.

Also for anyone interested you can make a very nice sturdy book out these that are bound and printed on quality paper for a very cheap price (around $20 including shipping) at http://www.lulu.com/. I've used them for both books and am very satisfied with the product I received. Just remember to choose the option "keep this private for only my viewing" (it's the default option) during the creation process. You wouldn't want to accidentally start selling these on lulu's marketplace for 20 bucks for obvious reasons, legal and otherwise.
taw420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 05:39 AM   #59
Cwocwoc
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,690
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by taw420 View Post
This book (both volumes) along with improva's book and a DC membership is a deadly combo.
You sound like the troll mate.Do you work for Deuces Cracked because it sounds like it.
Cwocwoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 05:43 AM   #60
Gelford
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Gelford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,348
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabbershot View Post
Seidman repeatedly claims that the first volume alone can make somebody $100 an hour.

This "volume" is more like a pamphlet: 28 pages about value betting, plus six pages on intro HU play. It adds up to about 9 bucks a page for what the author says is a guide to ABC poker.
Despite having become a lot tougher the last few years, poker at the 50NL-100NL level doesn't require more than what is described in this pamplet to beat it.

This will get you a higher hourly than your daytime job, if you reach 100$/hr I dunno, but I'm in no doubt that you can surpass 50$/hr. (if you're a heavy multitabler, getting beyond 50$/hr at 100NL requires a good rb deal and slightly less than a 1BB/100 winrate)
Gelford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 05:45 AM   #61
Gelford
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Gelford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,348
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by taw420 View Post
Why do you guys keep feeding the obvious troll?
Cos we're bored ?
Gelford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 05:57 AM   #62
Jabbershot
grinder
 
Jabbershot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 495
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelford View Post
This will get you a higher hourly than your daytime job, if you reach 100$/hr I dunno, but I'm in no doubt that you can surpass 50$/hr.
I wonder at what level one can find a steady flow of soft tables, play ABC poker, and make $100/hr. At a 40 hr work week and 50 weeks a year, that's $200,000 a year.
Jabbershot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 06:09 AM   #63
Sean'
journeyman
 
Sean''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 392
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Two full weeks a year, thank you boss!
Sean' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 06:39 AM   #64
Gelford
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Gelford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,348
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabbershot View Post
I wonder at what level one can find a steady flow of soft tables, play ABC poker, and make $100/hr. At a 40 hr work week and 50 weeks a year, that's $200,000 a year.
The trouble is that technically it isn't really that hard ... my estimate is +50$/hr multitabling 100NL .. and that estimate isn't anything stellar or unreachable.

The problem is that very few people can stand not attempting to move up, cos the grind is excrutiatingly boring and the solitude is not easily negligeble .. despite the good money, it ****s you up severely .. also once ****ed up, reality shifts and your game can deteriate.

But other than that there have been +200k yearly graphs in BBV from 100NL FR grinders every year, it doesn't get anymore abc than grinding 24 tables of 100NL FR.
Gelford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 06:46 AM   #65
taw420
journeyman
 
taw420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 293
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc View Post
You sound like the troll mate.Do you work for Deuces Cracked because it sounds like it.
LOL I don't work for anyone. If your seriously not trolling these guys and you don't grasp what they are trying to tell you then this book will be useless to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelford View Post
Cos we're bored ?
OK just wondered. Sometimes people get caught up in the heat of battle and don't realize they're blatantly being trolled or dealing with a retard and logic and reason doesn't appeal to them. Have fun I guess.
taw420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 07:58 AM   #66
Cwocwoc
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,690
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by taw420 View Post
LOL I don't work for anyone. If your seriously not trolling these guys and you don't grasp what they are trying to tell you then this book will be useless to you.



OK just wondered. Sometimes people get caught up in the heat of battle and don't realize they're blatantly being trolled or dealing with a retard and logic and reason doesn't appeal to them. Have fun I guess.
You're just wumming and name-calling.Pathetic.I'm not wasting any more time with you.
Cwocwoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:12 PM   #67
deacsoft
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
deacsoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Missing Madison
Posts: 6,074
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Okay guys. I'm ending this as it is getting a bit out of hand.

My thoughts on this are as follows...
I think e-books are a good source of information. I also think some of these e-books (more lately it seems) are written by some pretty good to excellent players. So I believe they are +EV and have value. Whether or not the player has been winning is of little consequence. It does not take a great player to be a great teacher. They are not the same. I'll admit that being a winning player adds credibility and may even edge them towards being more likely to be a good teacher. But it does not mean is that an average player couldn't be a great teacher.

I have often looked at the 100+ poker books on my shelf and thought, "Wow. These were a fantastic deal." Some of these books could have cost $1000.00 and still helped to make me a profit. The high prices of some of these e-books may seem like they are way too high. In reality they might be priced too low. I think it depends on the perspective. From an average consumers perception, they are way to expensive. Other books go for around $25. From the authors perception, the book is likely too cheap. The information that we would hope they are selling could be worth thousands, maybe millions. And without doubt, in the hands of the right person or people, it could make the author's living considerably more difficult. Now there are players out there armed with the same skills and know how the author plays. Doyle Brunson has been quoted that writing Super System resulted in him having to significantly change his game.

That being said...
I don't think it's wrong that Cwocwoc is looking for some evidence that the book is worth the price. Since the authors stats may not be the greatest and many people are defending the book, the author, etc; I don't think Cwocwoc is out of line by asking them for before and after stats. I also don't think any of the 2+2ers bing asked for this information are obligated to share their stats. If they do not wish to back up what they're saying with personal information; that's their choice. Not sharing the information doesn't make what they're saying any more true or less untrue.

I also think that no one should be saying it's not worth the price if they have not read it.
deacsoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:12 PM   #68
deacsoft
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
deacsoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Missing Madison
Posts: 6,074
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Cwocwoc,
I hope you find the information you're seeking. There's nothing wrong with making an informed decision on a big purchase. But please be respectful when seeking it. There are a large number of excellent players on 2+2. Most, if not all of them, would not be willing to share their stats. It does not mean they're a bad player or a less credible source of information. You'll know who the good players are based on the quality of their posts.
deacsoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:39 PM   #69
turbohydrate
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Sydney
Posts: 178
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacsoft View Post
Okay guys. I'm ending this as it is getting a bit out of hand.

My thoughts on this are as follows...
I think e-books are a good source of information. I also think some of these e-books (more lately it seems) are written by some pretty good to excellent players. So I believe they are +EV and have value. Whether or not the player has been winning is of little consequence. It does not take a great player to be a great teacher. They are not the same. I'll admit that being a winning player adds credibility and may even edge them towards being more likely to be a good teacher. But it does not mean is that an average player couldn't be a great teacher.

I have often looked at the 100+ poker books on my shelf and thought, "Wow. These were a fantastic deal." Some of these books could have cost $1000.00 and still helped to make me a profit. The high prices of some of these e-books may seem like they are way too high. In reality they might be priced too low. I think it depends on the perspective. From an average consumers perception, they are way to expensive. Other books go for around $25. From the authors perception, the book is likely too cheap. The information that we would hope they are selling could be worth thousands, maybe millions. And without doubt, in the hands of the right person or people, it could make the author's living considerably more difficult. Now there are players out there armed with the same skills and know how the author plays. Doyle Brunson has been quoted that writing Super System resulted in him having to significantly change his game.

That being said...
I don't think it's wrong that Cwocwoc is looking for some evidence that the book is worth the price. Since the authors stats may not be the greatest and many people are defending the book, the author, etc; I don't think Cwocwoc is out of line by asking them for before and after stats. I also don't think any of the 2+2ers bing asked for this information are obligated to share their stats. If they do not wish to back up what they're saying with personal information; that's their choice. Not sharing the information doesn't make what they're saying any more true or less untrue.

I also think that no one should be saying it's not worth the price if they have not read it.
Hopefull this will put to rest the past two pages of garbage.
turbohydrate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 06:24 PM   #70
buzzcut
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 439
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacsoft View Post
My thoughts on this are as follows...
I think e-books are a good source of information...

I have often looked at the 100+ poker books on my shelf...
Well said.

In terms of the various authors' claims of success, yes I agree with the belief that they may be stretching it a little in terms of what will come from reading their material. But at the same time, I think for certain people who have the aptitude and desire to digest it all, learn from it, and then apply it correctly (no easy task), the claims might not be that far off the mark. But, obviously not everyone has the ability to do that. In fact, I also think the people who can, would likely eventually reach higher levels without the information in these books, but just at a slower pace. So, the books help accelerate process and thereby add value. Also, on the flip side of that is the reality that some people no matter how many books or ebooks they read, videos the watch, etc, they just won't make $$$. Now for everyone else somewhere in the middle, as expressed in this thread, different people look for and get different things out of these books. While input from others as to the worth of a book when making a purchase decision is nice, the end result is not what others got from it; but what you got from the book. If the person buying it thought they got their monies worth, or didn't, or got more, that's all that matters.

I personally don't get all these ebook threads where people are bashing them simply on cost. There are surely lots of things in this world that the cost vs. value is subjective. ebooks are just pokers version of that. If you've got the money and want to spend it, so be it.
buzzcut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 07:44 PM   #71
majorcrisp
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Getting back to discussion on the book itself.
Do any of the guys (the people that have read it of course) think that his claim that buying the first part of the book will give a 25nl player enough background into micro stakes poker theory to turn that player into a 100nl reg, assuming the reader is relatively intelligent and willing to put the time in absorbing the knowledge within it?

Last edited by majorcrisp; 01-15-2010 at 07:54 PM.
majorcrisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:47 PM   #72
Thibo
journeyman
 
Thibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 300
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by majorcrisp View Post
Getting back to discussion on the book itself.
Do any of the guys (the people that have read it of course) think that his claim that buying the first part of the book will give a 25nl player enough background into micro stakes poker theory to turn that player into a 100nl reg, assuming the reader is relatively intelligent and willing to put the time in absorbing the knowledge within it?
Personnally, I can't really answer to this. Tough one.
Thibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:56 PM   #73
Jabbershot
grinder
 
Jabbershot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 495
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by majorcrisp View Post
his claim that buying the first part of the book will give a 25nl player enough background into micro stakes poker theory to turn that player into a 100nl reg,
Most of the information in that book is not all that unique: bet sizing, isolation, pot control. etc. You can find it in plenty of sources. I'm not sure why one who would improve from that book could not get the same material cheaper and in a more accessible manner.

For Easy Game I to be a real book, it would need to be heavily revised and rewritten. It isn't that the material is bad so much as that it isn't anything we haven't see before. There's a marketing point with these e-books that at a high price, one must be buying privileged secrets on how to crush the game. That isn't necessarily so.

Just remember that the original price of Supersystem, in inflation-adjusted dollars, was $297.98. At the time, it was the only book of its kind and Internet forums didn't exist. So it was one of the few sources of serious poker info.

Last edited by Jabbershot; 01-15-2010 at 10:04 PM.
Jabbershot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 10:04 PM   #74
Thibo
journeyman
 
Thibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 300
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabbershot View Post
Most of the information in that book is not all that unique: bet sizing, isolation, pot control. etc. You can find it in plenty of sources. I'm not sure why one who would improve from that book could not get the same material cheaper and in a more accessible manner.

For Easy Game I to be a real book, it would need to be heavily revised and rewritten. It isn't that the material is bad so much as that it isn't anything we haven't see before. There's a marketing point with these e-books that at a high price, one must be buying privileged secrets on how to crush the game. That isn't necessarily so.
Yeah but you are not paying for "a new and groundbreaking strategy to beat the micros" You pay to have a tons of concepts explained and organised together in a way that it's easier to digest/apply them. Obviously pretty much all this stuff can be found in videos and forums.. but not in the same video, thread and in the way BalugaWhale explain it. That's what you pay for.
Thibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 10:16 PM   #75
Jabbershot
grinder
 
Jabbershot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 495
Re: Easy game by Andrew Seidman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thibo View Post
You pay to have a tons of concepts explained and organised together in a way that it's easier to digest/apply them.
There's only a handful of concepts. Most of them are readily discernible through observation and a little math. The rest is just application and discipline.
Jabbershot is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online