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Old 05-15-2017, 07:21 PM   #1551
statmanhal
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,815
Re: Applications of No-Limit Hold 'em Review and Discussion - See 1st post for Updated Concepts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Janda View Post
What EmptyPromises is (correctly) saying is that all that matters for determining the best line is the current state of the game (each player's range, the stack depth, etc). If you and your opponent are playing heads up and find yourselves in a certain situation, it doesn't matter how you got there the optimal lines will be the same.
.
In post 299, the above appears

I think this says you need not know earlier round betting sequences for GTO play. You bet and villain calls is no different than V bets and H calls.
In describing Cephus, a GTO-like bot for LHE, Neil Burch notes itís a pre-computed strategy and requires you to input the betting to have it show its next move. Here is the quote:

In order to act, Cepheus needs to know the public cards on the board, as well as the betting that has occurred.
Here is the link:

http://poker-blog.srv.ualberta.ca/20...uery-tool.html

Any comment?
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:07 PM   #1552
Matthew Janda
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 699
Re: Applications of No-Limit Hold 'em Review and Discussion - See 1st post for Updated Concepts

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Originally Posted by Deceiver_416 View Post
Hi Matthew,

I'm really enjoying your book as mathematician and a poker player with 18 years experience. One of my favorite sections is the one on pinpointing optimal river bet size. In 18 years I've never solved for this, I actually paused and came up with 0.83 through trial and error. However I believe this only to be correct in a vacuum, there is added value for your range in betting larger that we can actually quantify. Lets assume we can value bet 50 out of 100 combos here, the 83% bet size means we can be bluffing 31.2% of the time, that would be 22.67 bluff combos and 50 value combos. If we bet pot we can be bluffing 33.3% of the time, meaning 25 bluff combos and 50 value combos, adding 2.33 more bluffs to our range. Since when we bluff with a balanced range we have essentially won whats in the pot this would mean that increasing our size from 83% to 100% of pot gains us 0.0233 pot sized bets. The EV when we bet 0.83 is 0.20455 PSB and the EV of betting pot is 0.20000 PSB. We lose 0.00455 PSB by betting pot but more than make up for it with our bluffs, the equilibrium is somewhere between 1.2x pot and 1.3x pot IIRC from trial and error last night, I'd love to dive deeper here but I'm short on time. Without your book I wouldn't have even got this far, I really like your work but can you update that section taking this into account, I know it'll make the most complex math in the book even more complex, we'd also need to add a variable for how frequently we have a hand of this strength. It's been 20 years since I last studied calculus but I think it's worth looking into and you're one of the few people I consider more qualified than myself in the area of poker math.

Thank you for opening my mind to new ways to apply math to poker. I really enjoyed this one, not for everybody but as a math guy this was right up my alley!
Thank you for the comment and you've clearly put in a lot of work to this, I unfortunately had a bit of trouble following it and I don't think I have too much to add.

Feel free to keep posting though if you decide to keep working on this and think you've found something interesting or new. GL!
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:18 PM   #1553
Matthew Janda
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 699
Re: Applications of No-Limit Hold 'em Review and Discussion - See 1st post for Updated Concepts

Quote:
Originally Posted by statmanhal View Post
In post 299, the above appears

I think this says you need not know earlier round betting sequences for GTO play. You bet and villain calls is no different than V bets and H calls.
In describing Cephus, a GTO-like bot for LHE, Neil Burch notes itís a pre-computed strategy and requires you to input the betting to have it show its next move. Here is the quote:

In order to act, Cepheus needs to know the public cards on the board, as well as the betting that has occurred.
Here is the link:

http://poker-blog.srv.ualberta.ca/20...uery-tool.html

Any comment?
What I'm saying is if you know both players' ranges, then previous betting action does not matter.

In reality, the only way you'll know both players' ranges is if you know the previous action and bet sizing. So, in actual poker it's absolutely crucial to know the previous action, or you won't know what each players range is right now and what the right action is to take with your specific hand.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:54 PM   #1554
Matthew Janda
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 699
Re: Applications of No-Limit Hold 'em Review and Discussion - See 1st post for Updated Concepts

Quote:
Originally Posted by huliok View Post
Hello Mr Janda... Im going through your book and as many others would like to have the BvB 3b ranges but unfortunately wasnt able to send you a pm probably cause im not active on forums.. Any chance to get in touch on skype? That would be awesome

Also would like to ask you what changes would you make to the ranges you purpose 4 years after writing the book also considered that most 6max players dont have a flatting range from sb vs co,btn? (At low stakes at least)
Probably best if you just make a few more posts then shoot me a PM.
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