4bet to ~$1.50/GII preflop, makes life easier. Does the 8/8/25 mean he's 3bet 3 out of the 12 hands you have on him so far? In which case super easy 4bet.
I assume so yes. That hand is an example to my question though. Say we had 0 hands on villain or his 3 bet wasn't as high, would we still take the same line?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyice
dont call 3bets OOP good way to burn money
Very true, but we can't just lay AK down pre flop can we?? Or vs unkowns/tight players we can?
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Simplest of simple check-folds here. Just because the pot was 3-bet pre does not mean you have to try to take down every flop.
Wise words. I do often find myself wanting/trying to win pots I've committed more money into.
What is the optimal bet sizing for button and small blind steals (I play 5/10 NL zoom)?
From the button I tend to open to 2.5x or 3x with ATC trying to steal, and often will 3x to steal from SB, but what would be the mathematically best choice for stealing? Do min raises work in micro stakes zoom? I would think that they wouldn't, just because the BB would get really good odds to call a button min raise if the SB folds, but you never know. Thoughts?
What is the optimal bet sizing for button and small blind steals (I play 5/10 NL zoom)?
From the button I tend to open to 2.5x or 3x with ATC trying to steal, and often will 3x to steal from SB, but what would be the mathematically best choice for stealing? Do min raises work in micro stakes zoom? I would think that they wouldn't, just because the BB would get really good odds to call a button min raise if the SB folds, but you never know. Thoughts?
1) Stop opening ATC as a default - Pick your spots better. EG: If there is a fish in the blinds, opening ATC is not going to be proffitable. Vs 2 nits, ATC can be opened profitably
2) 2.5x is a good default size to use. However, if your using a wide stealing range, min opening would be okay.
^ play around for a while and see what works best. IMO stack sizes are relevant for deciding what open size you should make as much as how likely opponents will call or 3bet.
Is this too thin? He auto-donked turn so I thought he was weak and I could steal non-diamond rivers, but when he checks I think it's value time.
Not sure about next hand. On flop I raise UTG donk because I think minbets should be treated as checks... and although I sometimes check behind this board, against an UTG limp/call my standard would be to bet for value against worse pocket pairs and random Tx's. Turn improves my hand, but then the river is just bleugh. Any thoughts?
lol efas once you call the flop you're actually typing in the chatbox
Hey, I have this Flush Draw here, hopefully I get it on the turn, because I won't fold despite getting terrible odds (18% to hit on the turn, you need to call 2,54 for a 5.86 or 2.x:1)
Usually the action dies the moment you hit the flush
Super weird donk moves, I'd mark him in the brightest and shinest color I have
Also Samboro, I really don't like my AK hands, or they don't like me
Because at Zoom you're rarely having the best hand when a lot of money goes in on a Axx or Kxx or AKx board
So you're only winning mediocre pots and losing big ones a lot,
my last session I played 7k hands, now look at the losing hands from the session
AK kind of sucks imo, even in 3bet pots
If the Flop has A or K in it the action usually dies instantly because all JJ/QQ/TT hands are dominated by AK/KK/AA
Esp. if it's a multiway hand and the flop comes AKx you can't be happy when the money goes in because they will always come with xxx :P
and if the flop comes without A or K like 66% of the time, you'll get action from all kinds of hands (look at the screen, the hands where I RC usually I called a 3bet IP)
Some AK I 3bet and they'll get sticky with any piece of the board
I know one of my big leaks is calling c/r on the flop. So Ive only gone and done some analysis on my database! its only 40k hands so far but useful information is starting to come out.
c/r is
top pair a whopping 25% of the time
two pair 20%
set 15%
over pair 10%
Oh and when there is a str or flush possible, they usually have it.
so ~70% of the time when opponent c/r you, your bottom or middle pair is bad.
Im not sure yet what the best play to make with bottom or middle pair, but I know if I bet and there is a raise, Im nearly always a dog. Unless vs a 40/25 fish type player then thats the 30% where they have a gutshot or something and we're ahead. call down vs aggro fish
calling flop because I hate raise / callling here
when he checks turn I expect him to have bull**** here, but he shoves and I doubt anyone likes calling here with JQ...?
I have him on 100% fold to 3bet (4 times) so I try to take the pot down. I just 3x the thing because people have been calling / folding regardless of the size
flop and turn for value, choke on river
I thought about bet folding $1.5 but that leaves me with such odds that it seems strange to fold 2 pair
I doubt he's doing this with AQ and I'm just assuming he's hit his gin card on the river (/ turn?)
lol efas once you call the flop you're actually typing in the chatbox
Hey, I have this Flush Draw here, hopefully I get it on the turn, because I won't fold despite getting terrible odds (18% to hit on the turn, you need to call 2,54 for a 5.86 or 2.x:1)
Usually the action dies the moment you hit the flush
Super weird donk moves, I'd mark him in the brightest and shinest color I have
Also Samboro, I really don't like my AK hands, or they don't like me
Because at Zoom you're rarely having the best hand when a lot of money goes in on a Axx or Kxx or AKx board
So you're only winning mediocre pots and losing big ones a lot,
my last session I played 7k hands, now look at the losing hands from the session
AK kind of sucks imo, even in 3bet pots
If the Flop has A or K in it the action usually dies instantly because all JJ/QQ/TT hands are dominated by AK/KK/AA
Esp. if it's a multiway hand and the flop comes AKx you can't be happy when the money goes in because they will always come with xxx :P
and if the flop comes without A or K like 66% of the time, you'll get action from all kinds of hands (look at the screen, the hands where I RC usually I called a 3bet IP)
Some AK I 3bet and they'll get sticky with any piece of the board
If im reading HEM correct there you seem to be flatting with AA/KK a lot, just 3bet it. Your check/calling dry flops with AK too much. Seems a bit spew and FPS to me.
3betting AA/KK just because AA/KK ? that sounds like a leak
While it's certainly +EV to 3bet KK/AA it's not the most EV
Guess what'd happen in the KK/AA hands once I 3bet? I would've taken down a 4.5bb pot 100% of the time and they'd outright fold, giving them a chance to make the optimal play by folding.
I'm only 3betting AA/KK if they're not folding a TON to 3bets or I'm wasting the awesome equity of AA/KK by giving them a chance to play perfect against me
I did float (check/call) AK on dry flops a lot because their 3bet range is so wide and what do you think your villain has on a 236r board OOP when restealing and checking a blank turn? I'm floating here obv, as you can see me betting the turn as semibluff (well since they're so incredibly bad they call with 55 here, and since they're passive calling stations a river bet is just bad and I give up unless I hit A/K on the river)
But on hands like these you can take a note that they're 3betting small PP from the blinds against LP opens and checking the turn after cbetting the flop, so you can easily float them with medium pairs/overcards and attack turn/river more or the flop cbet a lot
The second float with AK against a LP steal I ran into AA with TPTK but I'm not folding turned TPTK to a riverbet, esp when the Club draw missed
The AA was unlucky against 66, I raised his cbet on the flop and he called for medium pair hitting a FH on the turn
The KK hand against AT on a KQJ board was unlucky too
The AA vs 55 hand, I had over 86% equity on the turn and he sucked out on the River
Imagine all the value I would've lost if I 3bet those hands preflop, they were calling several bets as total underdog (less than 5% equity in the 66 hand, less than 15% equity in the 55 hand till the river)
Just because they sucked out doesn't make it a bad play per se
On a sidenote it's not wrong to always 3bet AA/KK but if we are MP and EP opens and we 3bet them our hand is pretty much face up
I really like to call in MP with AA/KK a lot because sometimes they'll squeeze from LP/the blinds and EP turns into a calling station and I can ship it and confuse BTN/CO/blinds because they can't figure out what I'm call/shipping and they level themselves into thinking I'm FOS while trapping 20bb preflop
very pleased with myself. didnt call and c/r with less than top pair, didnt call any big river bets with less than the nuts when str or flush came in and they bet out. net result +6 BI. Huzzah!
3betting AA/KK just because AA/KK ? that sounds like a leak
While it's certainly +EV to 3bet KK/AA it's not the most EV
Guess what'd happen in the KK/AA hands once I 3bet? I would've taken down a 4.5bb pot 100% of the time and they'd outright fold, giving them a chance to make the optimal play by folding.
I'm only 3betting AA/KK if they're not folding a TON to 3bets or I'm wasting the awesome equity of AA/KK by giving them a chance to play perfect against me
I did float (check/call) AK on dry flops a lot because their 3bet range is so wide and what do you think your villain has on a 236r board OOP when restealing and checking a blank turn? I'm floating here obv, as you can see me betting the turn as semibluff (well since they're so incredibly bad they call with 55 here, and since they're passive calling stations a river bet is just bad and I give up unless I hit A/K on the river)
But on hands like these you can take a note that they're 3betting small PP from the blinds against LP opens and checking the turn after cbetting the flop, so you can easily float them with medium pairs/overcards and attack turn/river more or the flop cbet a lot
The second float with AK against a LP steal I ran into AA with TPTK but I'm not folding turned TPTK to a riverbet, esp when the Club draw missed
The AA was unlucky against 66, I raised his cbet on the flop and he called for medium pair hitting a FH on the turn
The KK hand against AT on a KQJ board was unlucky too
The AA vs 55 hand, I had over 86% equity on the turn and he sucked out on the River
Imagine all the value I would've lost if I 3bet those hands preflop, they were calling several bets as total underdog (less than 5% equity in the 66 hand, less than 15% equity in the 55 hand till the river)
Just because they sucked out doesn't make it a bad play per se
On a sidenote it's not wrong to always 3bet AA/KK but if we are MP and EP opens and we 3bet them our hand is pretty much face up
I really like to call in MP with AA/KK a lot because sometimes they'll squeeze from LP/the blinds and EP turns into a calling station and I can ship it and confuse BTN/CO/blinds because they can't figure out what I'm call/shipping and they level themselves into thinking I'm FOS while trapping 20bb preflop
This (3B or calling PF with AA/KK) has been debated too much on 2p2 and no one can seem to agree to disagree.
We shall agree to disagree with the main point of the thread. But I do think its an example of FPS at the micros.
Anyway... If you think your 3bets are getting a tonne of folds when you 3B vs an UTG player from what x position... why dont you start light 3betting regs (with blockers)???
It is an insanly profitable ploy vs good but ABC regs who snap fold most of their range.
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