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ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl

07-24-2016 , 09:47 AM
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2937208
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $29.95
SB: $18.42
BB: $10.00
UTG: $13.43
MP: $9.95
Hero (CO): $17.88

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J Q
UTG raises to $0.28, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.90, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.62

Flop: ($1.95) K 9 3 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1, UTG calls $1

Turn: ($3.95) K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.70, UTG calls $2.70

River: ($9.35) A (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6

did i spew it?some random unknown fish
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 10:21 AM
Check back flop.

Barrel on the turn is spew as well. Why are you bluffing a fish?
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 10:23 AM
If you would have had at least one or better both of your holecards in heart i would be d'accord with your line. As played i would latest (not sure if i even would cbet this flop) on the turn shut down and not put any money into the pot. Also preflop is imo a call and not a 3bet.
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 10:50 AM
just let him have it.
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 10:51 AM
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2937218
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $20.46
BB: $10.28
UTG: $9.16
MP: $10.00
CO: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with K A
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.90, 3 folds, CO raises to $2.43, Hero calls $1.53

Flop: ($5.11) 8 J A (2 players)
CO bets $2.92, Hero raises to $7.57 all in, CO folds
this???
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 11:39 AM
QJ I'd ship river prolly as this can allow you to have slightly more bluffs. People telling you it's bad are silly. QJcc/QJdd/QJss are your best bluffs because it blocks KQ/KJ without blocking heart draws. QJdd and QJss being the best ones since villain is significantly more likely to call with KQ/KJs and the turn K is a club. You still have 6 combos of AK so you can do a psb otr and remain balanced and I also believe you'd get enough folds for it to be profitable, but giving up with this otr and continuuing with QJss/QJdd is slightly better. You are also still ahead of JThh and some weak sc hearts too w/Q high.
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
QJ I'd ship river prolly as this can allow you to have slightly more bluffs. People telling you it's bad are silly. QJcc/QJdd/QJss are your best bluffs because it blocks KQ/KJ without blocking heart draws. QJdd and QJss being the best ones since villain is significantly more likely to call with KQ/KJs and the turn K is a club. You still have 6 combos of AK so you can do a psb otr and remain balanced and I also believe you'd get enough folds for it to be profitable, but giving up with this otr and continuuing with QJss/QJdd is slightly better. You are also still ahead of JThh and some weak sc hearts too w/Q high.
While this is true, it's still completely irrelevant. This is 10NL.
Also, since when do we need to be balanced vs. fish?
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookMySock
While this is true, it's still completely irrelevant. This is 10NL.
Also, since when do we need to be balanced vs. fish?
I said I thought you'd get enough folds for it to be profitable. Checking flop is quite awful, we can debate all day about turn/river though.
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 12:30 PM
What sort of read is a "random unknown fish"?
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07-24-2016 , 12:49 PM
H1: Which hands and why are you trying to make him fold?

H2: Ship or fold pre
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 01:42 PM
I not trying him to fold,but just shipping because I am lead there i think,and he cann call me worse
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 03:24 PM
Kelvis summed it up pretty nicely. I'll chime in a bit more.

The first hand is definitely spew. You have an UTG raiser. Do you know if that raiser is leading from early position with a loose or tight range? Without that information, I don't think 3-betting is a good idea. QJs has too much postflop value to turn it into a 3-bet bluff. So I would prefer to just call preflop with it.

When you 3-bet and he calls, the flop is questionable for you. I actually don't think your flop bluff was bad, because he is unlikely just calling with AA or KK. But you need to know what in his range you are trying to bluff. So what could he have called your 3bet with that he will fold with on the flop? Maybe 99-QQ, and AQs-AKs (possibly KQs if he's really loose calling against 3-bets).

I will spare you my combo counting, but I think you're folding 21 combos, and you're not folding 24 combos, and the 3 combos of QQ are questionable. Let's just say he's folding maybe half the time. That's not bad, and I'd make a 3/4 size bluff or so. Your half-pot bluff was ok, but I'd probably be betting 3/4 pot if I had AA or KK here, so I would do the same. My thinking is, I don't like the 3-bet preflop, but we're here in this situation now, so I think this is an OK flop to continue to rep AA or KK, and try to get a fold.

When he calls flop, and another K comes out on the turn, then it's abandon the plan time. There is no reason to keep betting. What could he have called the flop with? AK-hearts or AQ-hearts? AKo and KQo? Notice that only the AQ-hearts might possible fold to another bluff on the turn. There are 8 AK combos left, 6 KQ combos left, and only 1 AQh left. 1 combo you can try to bluff (that has a flush draw) and 14 combos that are not folding. That's bad.

Is there something I'm missing? Is there some other hand I'm not thinking of that could get to this point that you are trying to fold? That's the main question you should ask yourself at this point in the hand. This is definitely not a spot to be bluffing. This is where your major spew happens (although 3-betting preflop with QJs might be a sign of spew if you do that a lot).

You should be checking behind on that turn, hoping for a 10, and planning to check fold river if you don't get it.

------

Your other hand should probably be a ship or fold situation like Kelvis said. The problem with just calling his 4-bet is, what do you want to see on the flop that you're happy with? Basically just an A with other low cards would be OK. Other than that, you won't be happy and won't know how to play this spot very well. I think shipping if you think he can 3-bet bet with a wider range than KK+, AK, and folding if you think he's not wider than that.

As you played it, I think your ship on the flop was fine. He would feel the need to c-bet with a lot of his range, and he bet smallish, which may indicate timidity. He may have KK or QQ with a flush draw. He might have some amount of air. I think all of these facts are arguments to go ahead and get it in.

Last edited by killer beez; 07-24-2016 at 03:41 PM. Reason: To avoid wall of text
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veteraans
I not trying him to fold,but just shipping because I am lead there i think,and he cann call me worse
On the first hand you think he's calling you with worse? What hand are you beating that you think he can call with?
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-24-2016 , 03:37 PM
I think he means preflop. Some people can raise/call 3bets pretty wide but that really is information that should be put in the OP because else the whole hand makes no sense.

I don't think 3betting QJs vs UTG in position is bad if he defends by calling instead of 4betting. You hold no blockers to many hands he will continue with so you're really counting on outplaying him after the flop, which turns out not to be the case. As played I think a cbet on this flop is mandatory. With the turn being the second king, you can now no longer credibly represent AK/KK because they are less likely and also AA might not bet the turn so whatever he called with on the flop probably doesn't fold turn.

Veteraans, can you name the hands you think villain is calling preflop and flop with?
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07-25-2016 , 03:08 AM
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2938099
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $10.40
SB: $10.00
BB: $24.00
Hero (UTG): $31.19
MP: $18.09
CO: $13.73

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with T 9
Hero raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 1 fold, BTN raises to $1.40, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.10, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.25) Q 3 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($3.25) J (2 players)
Hero bets $1.48, BTN calls $1.48

River: ($6.21) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.84, BTN calls $2.84
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote
07-25-2016 , 06:01 AM
You sucked out but that was definitely a fold pre flop
ZOOM HANDS 10 Nl Quote

      
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