look under beginner faq and down at the bottom is "what are some great threads...."

It's hold 'em. Usually nobody has anything much in shorthanded pots. If you find yourself often putting your opponent on two pair, you are doing it wrong. Try things like king high, or small pair and that will be more accurate than two pair. When the pot starts growing after the flop, it is more likely somebody has top pair or better but it doesn't mean your opponent is willing to call a big bet on the turn with a mediocre pair. IMHO.
Love,
Roxy

im a newbie what is a monotone flop? otherwise, i like the post OP. ive learned much from this anthology of newbie knowledge.

neverminddd i read whole post

Great post and discussion!

Hi I'm quite the beginner and some of this still doesn't make sense to me. I don't fully understand why I would want to c-bet an A or K high board. Johnny5000 had a problem with this as well:

RedJoker responded:
It seems to me that here RedJoker is advocating checking here in most situations, right? Do other people agree? because then that contradicts the first post (unless there's something I'm not understanding) which says

Thanks!

The thing is with jacks on an ace high board (something like A49 with no flush draw), its unlikely you'll get called by anything less then an ace, and even if someone has a worse hand that can call you it's unlikely that they'll call 3 streets, so checking back the flop is a great way to keep the pot smaller and you can get value from a smaller pair on the turn / river but avoid the situation where you bet the flop, bet the turn and then have to fold to a large river bet. Its usually apparent that if someone checks to you twice they don't have an ace and then you can bet to get value out of their lower pairs, but a flop check might be someone with a strong hand letting you cbet with the intent of raising or leading the turn.

You should notice that the op says when you have some limited showdown value you shouldn't cbet, and this is the case here. Note that if you had air on this flop then cbetting might be good as you will fold out some small pocket pairs and some better no pair hands etc (note that when you cbet on an Ace or king high board people will be likely to give you credit for an ace or king as you raised preflop, which is why you cbet these boards), but with the jacks the only hands you rate to fold out would be hands worse then yours.

"just imagine" c-betting your pocket pair to a A or K high board, and hitting the set on the turn.. the best players will have a hard time reading your hand

Good post will read.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...hreads-430489/



a ton of good stuff for micro on here.

Hello i am new here,

so what is a Monotone Flop, can you please post a Monotone Flop/Board.

greetz

great post

3 cards all one suit e.g. 2 3 8

I'm not worthy to give this advice either, but I think you're right.

On the contrary, it's not the case here. In the vast majority of cases, you shouldn't be primarily guided by SDV considerations in c-bet situations, because it's a long way to showdown with two more streets to come, where equities can change dramatically or you could be pushed off your hand easily.

When you are a preflop raiser with JJ and flop comes Axx rainbow, c-betting is better than not c-betting. If you check and villain doesn't have an ace, there is a big likelihood that another overcard will come on the turn and pair his hand. There are just too many overcards for the JJ, so slowplaying it on A-hi flops, where you think villain does not have an ace, does not guarantee you will still have the best hand on the turn and that you would be making any value instead of valuetowning yourself. You are not going to make several streets of value with JJ on an A-hi board anyway, and the flop may actually be the best street to bet in most situations.

Now, it's completely different with KK. With KK, I like to check A hi flops, because turn card will rarely change the situation, and if we are ahead, we are more likely get value from worse hands by checking the flop and betting turn, rather than c-betting flop

Thanks for the comprehensive information.

Best thread I've seen on cbets. Thanks!

First of all, I think it should be made clear that the term "double-barrel" refers to betting the flop and turn when you were the pre-flop aggressor and neither the flop nor the turn improved your hand. Flopping TPTK and betting the flop and turn is not double-barreling.

Second, the lists of what favors a c-bet vs. what doesn't is 100% relevant to 2014. As was discussed in part 1, beginners should be raising preflop and firing c-bets as often as 75%-80% of the time if not more.

I personally would recommend that a beginner *never* double-barrel in 2014, and probably wouldn't even have recommended it in 2008. It takes post-flop skill, hand-reading and experience to know when a villain would call a flop and then fold the turn with a better hand.

2016 even more so. Seems even 2nl 6max the vast majority play fit-or-fold on the flop -- and often slow play sets and overpairs. So getting called OTF = warning bells should go off, they are extremely unlikely to fold.

This seems to be true even on flushy flops -- since 80% of turns do not make the flush, nowadays folks do not raise flop "to protect" their value hands. They are looking to trap, induce bluffs, try to win more yhan just one street's bet...


TBH the only turn barrelling that might be profitable IMO today is if you make your flop bet size noticeably smaller than average (like 33%..45% your entire range) then turn make it close to pot or even more -- then you get weak hands to call OTF but few would call OTT. But that's high variance obv.

FANTASTIC OP by Doug as usual tho.

Bump for the beginners in here. This is Doug Polk, if you didn't know. His method here is a great way to fix a cbet leak in a hurry.