oh should we ever make a call that we know is -ev in a vacuum for the sake of balance and all that. Example if i have MP on the flop and bet and get raised unless i have some draws or a couple BD draws i'm folding nearly 100 percent. i know this is exploitable but it doesn't seem like the player pool i play against knows how to exploit it or they just don't care. Cause a raise is still usually always TPTK+

Easy. If it is between 1-29 seconds you do one of the option and 30-59 you do the other.

60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. I don't use more specific frequencies than that.

What's the basic formula for MDF? Say V raises pre and i know he raises 15 percent of hands

MDF is much less relevant pre. Are you in the BB? Also, him raising 15% is totally irrelevant to MDF, but it might be useful for adjusting from it.

ok any good online sources to get a basic understanding of MDF? i know or assume it is the minimum percentage of hands that we can call with and not get exploited

Nothing unpaid that I'm aware of.

Very basic answer is mentioned here: http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/gto-simplified/

ty for the link

I guess one question i have would be is GTO really the way to go? Done correctly the EV is always zero. Don't we need to stray from GTO to actually make money?

Well no. Unless you're playing hu with no rake and both of you play perfect.

Pretty sure GTO is guaranteed dollars against non-GTO players. This isn't allowing you to maximize your win because you aren't effectively exploiting the area they are not playing perfectly. So you may deviate from GTO to make more money but now this opens up a leak on your end if the opponent notices and takes advantage. Becomes a cat and mouse game.

GTO vs GTO is losing money to the rake long term. Playing identically. This is obviously the case only if you are computers or have bots. It probably would be hard to play such a complex game GTO using only your head. Somebody would deviate accidentally I am sure. It would just be two people following a rigid path and the one who has the most mental errors, which do come up, we are human lol, loses.

This is HU only.

common misconception, based on the fact that Nash is 0EV in RPS

GTO crushes basically any human strategy, people say 'lol just exploit' instead but a true GTO strat would beat any game more than the actual humans playing it IMO

You don't believe you could make slight variations to a true GTO vs somebody with a glaring leak to eek out more? GTO would be a rigid set of rules and not reflecting on the persons ability, correct?

Playing the same game vs. somebody who has a 55 percent fold to 3 bet or a person who has a 75 percent fold to 3 bet for example, would it not be better off to open a wider 3b vs. the 75 percenter? Thus deviating from GTO?

I could be completely wrong in my thinking that GTO is situation dependant not opponent dependant, thus not adjusting for different HUD numbers.

I mean obviously if you tell one of the current players what a GTO strat is and let them make deviations from that, but what I'm saying is that GTO performs better at every stake than any human player.

ok If V fires a psb and the Value bet to bluff ratio is 90/10 i should call with a bluff catcher 90 percent of the time??????? We want to call the same percentage that he's bluffing at least that's how i understand it

dude stop replying to this thread

Why i know a true gto calling strat would make it so that it wouldn't matter how often V bluffs or raises it would be unexploitable. yes only bluff catching 10 percent of the time is not GTO as it would be very easy to exploit

Villain is unbalanced in favour of value. It would be suicidal to use MDF or GTO bluff-catching frequencies against such a player. Also, if his range is 90% value, you should be bluff-catching a LOT less than 90%, since your bluffcatches will only be successful 10% of the time, meaning you're burning money by calling so often.
With regard to a strict MDF strategy, you should call according to the pot odds that villain is setting himself. In a toy game vs a perfectly polarized range (2:1 value:bluff), a pot-sized bet needs to be called 50% of the time to prevent the opponent from deviating. If he's already deviated and is bluffing at a very low frequency, you should call less often.

Lol how did I miss this post, this was all the motivation I needed.

Im at 25NL so learning all that GTO bull**** it is

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Ty for the response but i must of been unclear i was asking if we should bluff catch 10 percent of the time. I'm basically useing the AKQ game which says we should optimally Bluff with Qs 33 percent of the time. We should never bet kings but should call 33 percent of the time. So i kinda assumed that meant that if odds are 1 to 1 our bluff catching frequency should match his bluffing frequency?

check your maths on this bit

No, that's not how it works. There's no rule that says you should call as often as your opponent bluffs.

Rather than remembering the exact answer, you should study the method of solving the problem. It allows you to adjust the parameters and see how your strategy should change in return. It will also give you a better appreciation of when these toy games are useful in real games and when they should be ignored. (hint: it's not just, "don't play GTO against fish". Sometimes GTO play in real games is very different from GTO play in toy games)

My 'moving up' strat went a bit like this:
4NL: Check-fold the river, because they always have the nuts.
25NL: Check-shove the river, because they think you always have the nuts.

ok the version i'm talking about you can only check bet or call no raising allowed. You have a 1 in 3 chance of getting any given card 1/3 =33 percent. The goal is to reach a nash equilibrium. I assume that's the same thing as GTO. We should always bet Aces as it will win 2 out of 3 and tie one out of 3 their is no reason to ever deviate and check. sure we could check but we would lose money if our opponent is playing correctly and calling 1 out of 3 times when he has a king. His calls will run into the Queen more often then the ACE. Obviously we should never bet the king as it is a dominated strat as V will always fold the Q and call with the ACE. Anyway the whole key to the key is How often player 1 bets Q and how often player 2 calls K