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What are our options here with TT? What are our options here with TT?

07-22-2017 , 03:49 AM
    Poker Stars, $5 Buy-in (500/1,000 blinds, 125 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (SB): 26,742 (26.7 bb)
    BB: 11,465 (11.5 bb)
    UTG+2: 155 (0.2 bb)
    MP1: 29,810 (29.8 bb)
    MP2: 90,723 (90.7 bb)
    MP3: 13,613 (13.6 bb)
    CO: 49,661 (49.7 bb)
    BTN: 46,640 (46.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with T T
    2 folds, MP2 raises to 2,000, 2 folds, BTN calls 2,000.

    Action on Hero.




    Obviously folding is not an option. Are tens too strong to set mine? Squeezing with a shove highest EV?
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 04:42 AM
    Given you have odds of 6.5:1 preflop, and without more information, I would think it would be a toss up between calling and playing poker and shove squeezing preflop

    Calling gives you almost a freeroll to a monster, but probably tough to play post flop if you whiff.
    Shoving makes a decent hand play itself, but risks your tournament life, when you still have a playable stack.

    With more info on villains ranges, fold to resteal and table dynamic, we could maybe refine it one way or the other.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 07:23 AM
    I'd shove without too much thought, if we had position calling might be more viable. Knowing if the BB might take a shot if we just flatted and we could then go over the top would be useful
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 10:45 AM
    ICM considerations?

    Shoving looks pretty standard, but calling might have a higher EV against bad players.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 12:34 PM
    Facing a min raise and flat call, with 26bb effective stacks, what is the logic against a standard sized 3bet, something like a raise to 8 or 9 bb? 7 handed, with the btn capping his range, it seems like we want to raise high enough to keep BB in and run the button off, or am I missing something?
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 12:46 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
    with the btn capping his range, it seems like we want to raise high enough to keep BB in and run the button off
    BB has 11bb and UTG+2 has 0.2bb. While there might be ICM considerations for us not to shove here, the likelihood of BB calling a 3bet (basically an all-in) has to be very very low. There are probably scenarios were hands like QQ might be a fold for him if hero 3bets.

    If we 3bet to 9bb and MP2 or BTN ships, we're getting better than 2:1 on a call which still might not be enough considering the stacksize of UTG+2.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 12:57 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by madlex
    BB has 11bb and UTG+2 has 0.2bb. While there might be ICM considerations for us not to shove here, the likelihood of BB calling a 3bet (basically an all-in) has to be very very low. There are probably scenarios were hands like QQ might be a fold for him if hero 3bets.

    If we 3bet to 9bb and MP2 or BTN ships, we're getting better than 2:1 on a call which still might not be enough considering the stacksize of UTG+2.
    You seem to be making an argument for calling versus shoving, which I get (hard to really say with information on the payout). I am saying why is shoving favorable to 3betting to 9 bb here? In this situation, I am willing to play for stacks, so don't I take the line that is most likely to pull MP2 with me? Or do we shove now to make postflop play easier?
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 01:02 PM
    26bb is a tough stack size to play with hands like this. Is this a SNG? Calling and shoving both seem like decent but not great options (a non-all in 3-bet can be problematic, but might be OK too), but a read on the opener would be quite useful. How did he get that huge stack?
    FWIW, If you do 3-bet, I assure you you want it to produce folds. You do not want to play for stacks unless villain is ******ed.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 01:05 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
    In this situation, I am willing to play for stacks, so don't I take the line that is most likely to pull MP2 with me?
    The problem is that we don't know if playing for stacks is the right play. Pretty easy to construct a pay out structure where 3bet/fold > 3bet/call and that would be pretty awful since it moves us from having an OKish stack to below 20bb. While there are also scenarios where shoving is worse than calling or even folding, those are way less likely than the one where we can't raise/call. Given the stack sizes of BB and UTG+2, our hand may look way stronger than it is if we raise or shove.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-22-2017 , 02:12 PM
    Hero is in the early stages of the money in a small field micro stakes MTT. Pay jumps are not notable for quite a while from this point.

    Hero has only been at this table for about 15 hands. Nobody has been obviously out of line.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-23-2017 , 04:32 PM
    Shove. You have more fold equity than you should because MP2 is actually risking 46bb to make the call if button was trapping with a hand like QQ+.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-24-2017 , 09:52 AM
    You gotta risk it for the biscuit. I'm thinking you're up against a weaker pair or a hand like AKo or AQ-AJs. Ask yourself if I ship it do I get called by 99 and lower? If yes, then jam it in there. It depends on your reads on the other players though. Tens are too strong to fold so it's basically do you want to flat and let the villains see a flop with the possibility of them making their hand or do you want to put them to the test?

    Facing a min raise and a flat here would mean me shoving. I don't worry about ICM yet here. Are you playing to win or playing to cash?
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-24-2017 , 10:34 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OilSpill
    I'm thinking you're up against a weaker pair or a hand like AKo or AQ-AJs.
    Right now, hero is up against 100% of MP2s opening range and 100% of BTNs cold calling range. There is absolutely no reason to believe MP2s range doesn't include all pairs higher than TT, especially since hero doesn't block any of those hands.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote
    07-24-2017 , 01:15 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
    Facing a min raise and flat call, with 26bb effective stacks, what is the logic against a standard sized 3bet, something like a raise to 8 or 9 bb? 7 handed, with the btn capping his range, it seems like we want to raise high enough to keep BB in and run the button off, or am I missing something?
    There are some very bad events that can happen. e.g. You make it 9bb, both MP and BTN call. Flop comes J52, or Q96, or K85, or even 985, and the pot is about 28bb and you have 17bb. You'd be OOP 3-way with a hand you don't want to play for stacks with, even though you only have a 60% of pot-sized stack. And even if you decided "YOLO! There's only one overcard, I'm all in!", then if you were going to go all in on the flop, wouldn't it be better to go all in before villain had a chance to make a better hand than you?

    Note: It's possible that the 3-bet would take it down pre, or get you heads up with a better SPR and a higher likelihood of winning, but I think just shoving pre is actually less risky (and hence more profitable) than making a "normal" 3-bet. With aces or kings, a smaller 3-bet works better, because you get more of your EV from being called by worse. TT really just wants to pick up the dead money immediately, or at least be flipping vs 1 caller.

    Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 07-24-2017 at 01:20 PM.
    What are our options here with TT? Quote

          
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